This week is our final episode of the year. Sighs be sad! As of course John Wick has now entered the matrix, that's what's happening right? The Matrix Resurrections is hitting cinemas around the world, we will be focusing our episode on Neo himself, Keanu Reeves and picking our favourite films from his work.
Warning we will be talking SPOILERS.
Boaz's pick for this week is a favourite from his childhood, The Devils Advocate and its best not expanding on that. On this one we talk about how Al Pacino is having just the best time in this film. Also discuss why this film is just so god dam funny. IMDB page.
Martins pick for this week is the only choice for Keanu Reeves films which is of course, The Matrix. On this one we talk about the insane action that influenced action cinema for years to come. We talk about the incredibly intricate screen play and it's endlessly quotable. And why we should probably do a podcast on the oracle scene alone. IMDB page
As ever please enjoy.
Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England, if you enjoy this podcast please leave us a review and subscribe Hello, Potter RONIS. It is our last episode of the year. sighs as John Wick has now entered the matrix in the matrix resurrections apparently that's what's gonna happen in this film. Look, that's what it looks like anyway to me. And he's gonna be a lawyer, Israel. He's gonna study with the cyber devil. And of course we are doing Keanu Reeves. And as always, I'm with our resident devil man. Maha giving away his film. devilishly delightful. How are you good goods? I'm very well. As always, we have a buy me a coffee account. So if you want to say a big thank you, you can go to our show notes and click on the link and it will take you straight to our site. And you can buy us a coffee. That would be amazing. Right now as we go of your film person. Yeah, sure. No wonder what you went with. What did you go with? Yeah, I don't know. I'll play devil's advocate here. Yes. That's the film I fill my plate. Nice. Yeah, devil's advocate with Keanu Reeves ALPA Chino, why the devil did you pick this one? Why the devil did I pick this one? So I've watched this a few. I've watched this actually like a few times, but not like very recently. So one it was kind of Yeah, I didn't want to pick one of the John Wick is the thing we've already picked up John Wick. I don't want to keep being redundant and just pick another John Wick. I can pick John Wick one, I suppose. But I don't want to do that. And I haven't watched like a great deal of canneries films. As an actor. I don't know. He just never really on my radar too much. Other than the matrix, not the greatest actor. Not not the best. Yeah, it's not like I go. So I don't even know if he's been in much. Really. I've watched this before. I had this on VHS. I was very scared to watch it when I was a kid. And then I watched it a few times. And I know it's classically not a good film. Yeah. It's like, not in like a good you know, if you're talking critically, it's probably not a good fit. But I can't help but really like this film. I could see that. Yeah, I just it's a guilty pleasure of mine, actually. So you know, if you were to say, you know, Keanu Reeves films, when again, against my head, I have a lot of fun with this movie. So that's kind of why I picked it. You know, if I would just say, yeah, he's better movies. You look at the matrix. So you look at John Wick. I'm sure he's got some others. And he's done a lot of like, boring movies like The Day the Earth Stood Still and stuff. But to me, this is always entertains me as a movie. So it's entertaining for sure. It is. Yeah, I think I think it's a guilty pleasure. It's not in the right ways. I think it's great. But we'll discuss it further. But yeah, so that's my pick. What happens in the devil's advocate. It's, it's a film where Keanu Reeves plays a lawyer from a small town called Gainesville, and Charlize Theron. She's like his girlfriend. So he's a great lawyer. He's a great defender, criminal defender. And he gets invited to go to New York to work for this law firm, who's headed by ALPA Chino, who's called John Milton in this. And he's actually the devil. And he's actually his father. And you know, he's, yeah, engineering his stay in New York, too. We basically bring him into the family business. Yeah, it kind of makes it. Yeah, but it's amazing. Yes, it is amusing. I'm not sure it's supposed to be amusing, but I found this film hilarious. I'd never seen this before. So I was really intrigued to watch this and my god, watch the film. Again, I'm a bit like you I was very entertained, but just I don't think in the way that film was supposed to make me because it was very funny. But just in all the wrong Ways. So directing then, I think the first time you see something really weird that's not just the music as when Maryann who's played by Charlie's through on his clothes shopping with her neighbour, Jackie Heath. And there's this really awkward moment when Jackie asked Marianne to test to see if it's real or not, and it's very uncomfortable. And then the camera lingers on Jackie putting a top back on and you're like, why have we not cut to the next shot yet? And then Jackie's face can talks to this like Buffy the Vampire Slayer style demon, then as the shot comes down her body all these like hands are like feeling her body under a skin. And I love the design of that. I kind of wanted more of that stuff in the film. Yeah, but it never really came. Because it does give the film bit of a kick up the backside because it was starting to get a little boring at that point, because it was quite a slow burn. It's quite a slow burn this film, which usually I like, but because Albertina is so obviously the devil if it loses its intrigue, you already know what's going on. Because the film is desperately trying to tell you that Pachino is the devil and he's like, Yeah, we know. We get that. And then when Jackie turns into this demon thing in the flash, it was kind of like, Oh, that was cool. You know more of that, please? Yeah, there was a scene that that kind of happens as well. There's a little more of that with the jogging scene, you know, the homeless guys their faces. I'm trying to think like one thing that I quite like about the film, and it's something that I constantly talk about anyway, is like transitions. And I like some transition shots. So you know, I'm always for that. I'll give you some like notable ones. There's a few that I remember like one when he's she's painting Charlie's the Ron is painting the house. Oh, yeah, she's painting it in different colours and the rollers and it kind of what was it it fuses with the girl's reaction? Like she's painting and like basically like, you know, I don't know it's very hard to explain but like, I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, she's part of that scene, it kind of transitions to her reacting to it, like paint her in and I thought that was pretty cool. You know, that's a little one what was another one I quite liked you know when they're at the party and I think a door opens or whatever but it kind of pushes those people out of the way as if they're like on the doors you know, it pushes that scene away you know to the next scene and I quite I quite like that as well. So you know just small things like that or even at the end you know where it gets all ridiculous and like demon statues moving and on fire and turning into an angel and any you know, screams out and then it goes into his eye and then through a pit of hell and then out of Cana Reeves as I you know? Yeah. Pretty dodgy CG. Yeah, pretty dodgy CG doesn't hold up. I quite like well, when they were doing the whole you know, the statues or moving you could tell it at one point. There were are were actually actors. Yeah, in the wall. Yeah. And I kind of wish we had more of that. And maybe they came out of the walls or something. They're like, they were just free from the statue, if you will, like, going to do something to Keanu Reeves. Probably try and shag him or something. But yeah, no, I kind of get what you mean. Because rewatching that scene, when he's talking to him, and they're moving around, I was like, Oh, wow. Like, you know, oh, the effects were better than I remembered. And then when you see the CGI of them moving into Jesus Christ, that's awful. That looks like a cartoon, you know? Yes. The difference is night and day. Yeah, yeah. The sexy. The sexy, my God. It didn't work for me at all. Where Keanu Reeves is having sex with Charlene later on. Then it cuts between her and Connie Nielsen's character the Italian. It wasn't a sexy. It's actually it became quite funny. After each thrust from Keanu. It switches from Connie Nielsen space. Charlie's stones face over his shoulder. I was like, this is not having the desired effect. People. This is like a comedy sketch. What is happening? No, I like his reactions. Actually. What he's humping is like, Oh, it was like, you know, he just Oh yeah. Instead of like, holy shit, my wife is transforming in front of my eyes. Okay, I'll screw this gal as well. Yeah, I love this facial reaction because it's just like Keanu Reeves. Like, you know, act as if somebody has given you a really, you know, they've handed you a really nice ice cream out of nowhere. Nice. You know, shagging anybody in particular, just like, oh, yeah, this is great. Absolutely. But I think part of the reason why I like the film, it's so uneven. And I think that's, I think that's part of its charm. I do think there are good scenes and good, practical effect and then there's really dodgy shit. And there's really dodgy really dodgy scene. I think there are parts where they're good acting, and then there's when we get it's uneven like people give performances. We like that. God. Oh, yeah. But um, I just I just like the uneven stuff the films, I just think it's entertaining. Yeah, but the dream sequence with Marianne, I didn't like much either because it quickly tells you it's a dream sequence where you have this like brilliant Pierre Vee shot of her waking up. And then she walks out of the room, then cut back to Marianne, again, waking up watching herself walk out the room, and it was like, oh, okay, this is a dream sequence. Yeah, something's bad is gonna happen. So I don't understand why they did that. Really. It makes no sense to me. But the reveal of the baby holding all the guts was was a cool, like, shock moment. But it could have been so much better if I didn't know it was a dream sequence. I don't really know why they chose to do it that way. But did that see not what worked for you or not? Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, you know, it didn't scare me. And yeah, obviously. Yeah. You know, it's a dream. I'm trying to think like, what bit I like that. The dead? I think, not necessarily shocked me that much. But was a good scare at least. So yeah, you said the one with the girl in the dress where she? She has a similar thing towards the end where she's put into a mental institution. Connie Nielsen. Yeah. You know, Shelley's throne is put into a mental institution. And the woman like, fixes up a hair. And then, you know, shows her on the mirror and then her faces like Monster. So? Yeah, I quite like that as well. I feel it was a tad predictable that something was going to happen. Because again, like the rhythm of that scene just didn't add up. I mean, it did add up, you know that something bad was going to happen? Yeah. I mean, did you expect her to kill herself? Yeah, I did, to be honest. But I mean, I thought Charlie's throne in this film was really good. To be honest, the best thing eaten by a mile, a death scene was really good. But I mean, Charlie surrounds performance as this now like, completely mentally broken woman is amazing. Plus her like progression throughout the film, to get to this point, was really convincing. You know, as soon as you see all the broken glass on the floor, you know that she's gonna kill herself, you know? Well, for me anyway, because she's just got to this terrible mental state and, you know, all that from her performance, you know, and Keanu to his credit is really good in these movements trying to save her. I think that's is probably as best seen as Oh, yeah, by a country mile. Like, I was even surprised. I'm like, oh my god, he can he can actually actually act convincingly. Sad. Wow, where did this come from? Have you got a favourite shot or scene? You go first, and then I'll try and Okay, well, I think in the scripts is where you see things coming, you know, a mile away, but there's one scene that was quite shocking that I didn't see coming and it's where like, Lomax has gotten. Cullen have a murder, mystery incurable and he meets Maryanne in distress in a church and she's wrapped herself in this pink doovy when she tells Lomax that Melton has raped her like in their apartment loads of times and Lomax confronts her saying that that's impossible. And then all of a sudden, she gets up out of the chair and takes the duvet off and she's fully naked with like blood and cuts all over her body. And it happens so quickly you're not prepared for and it's quite a striking moment that I mean, I'm not sure why she would get up and do that anyway. Motivation wise, but it was still quite a shocking, striking moment. I think that was probably my favourite moment. Yeah, that's a pretty good one. Yeah, no, that's it. That's a good one. Yeah. And also you know, I would say when that girl transforms into a you know, we've we've already touched that the first time you see them in like demon forms and stuff. Yeah, pretty cool. So directing score for me. I can't really bring myself the scores that highly to be honest. We might get on to this in the matrix, but whether effects movies get aged, you know, wherever they age much at all. Certainly the effects in this film have aged great. I was trying to think I just remembered that was another scene where the effects looked really shoddy. Oh, yeah. Every time like at the end where he changes what he looks like Al Pacino. Like it turns out report era whatever. That looks really bad. You're like oh, he transformed but you're like oh my god that's really horrible. There were other scenes as well that I kind of spotted out like even when they were he was out in the balcony in the dark out the party with the girl with the the other girl the demon go. And I was like, it didn't look like they were outside. Just to me. Oh, yeah, looks like you're in a state. Just put that back. To me. Anyway. I don't know if it's the nostalgia talk. But to me, it's part of the charm. Where he just like some of it looks pretty bad. To me. I think that's kind of charming. It's kind of you know, looks kind of stupid. Ah, yeah. So, I mean, again, there's, there's a lot of like unnecessary boobage as well, I think. If you I'm just saying I'd probably watch this when I was 13 stiff as a fucking board. That's the best time to watch this. Yeah, I'm telling you, if you're a 13 year old boy, and you're horny as hell, and you know, there's so many tips in this film, you know, just unnecessarily just let everybody shouting at it for no reason. So I'll go with like, a 7.20. Man, I think even that's generous. Really? That's really, I wasn't even expecting you to go that high. All right. Now, I think there are some there are some nice moments of direction. I think you got to give some credit. I think I think where this film really falls down is the script. You know, I quite liked also when he's walking through the street, when he's basically discovered, I do get you to his credit, how could he have not discovered it immediately. But when he finally discovers he's the devil, and he walks out and he's gonna go see him? Is it Annie or Amy is behind him. One of the demons is like, he'll know what to do, you know, go to your father or whatever. And, and he turns around, and she's gone, it looks like just in one scene, and then he's going down and there's nobody on the street. And I'm just saying what, when you contrast that with the rest of the film, when it's New York and it's hustle and bustle after this huge revelation, and he has to walk through New York City through the centre, and it's just deserted. That's a pretty good sequence and it's a pretty great thing to pull off. Especially. You're like, how do you pull that off? But fuck up statues? Yeah, I feel like they've used half their budget just trying to close all that whole street now. Yeah, I thought that was pretty impressive. Oh, man. That's, yeah, I quite like that. So what score you going with for directing? I was gonna I was gonna go like 6.9 or 6.8 or something like that. Or, you know, somewhere in the sixes? But I'm gonna go a seven. Okay, yeah. For nostalgia. Yeah, fitness style. I think if you had asked me a few years ago, and even even rewatching it and saying these these bits are bad, they bring back so many memories. But in my head in my head before I rewatched it, it was like a nine. And I'm like, that's probably not. Okay, screenplay, then. This film has very Rosemary's Baby vibes going on here. You know, a young an up and coming couple moved to New York. And there's just a very, like subtle, creepy atmosphere going on. Marianne, played by Charlize Theron is struggling to adapt to life in New York. And she asked for advice from one of her neighbours and says, You got three choices, the Holy Trinity, you can work you can play or you can breed. And I was like, is she trying to tell her to just have a sex life? Or is this a you know, a Rosemary's Baby kind of situation here? Then there's a line from the neighbor's husband, Lehman Heath at the party. He says, I say we ride him as far as far as we can, and then we eat him. And I'm like, I'm sorry what's right um, as far as we can, that he he who he was eat. I think that's the thing like it's meant to be business to Oh, you chew them up, but they are actual demons. So you know, they can. But I do love like all the backstabbing like wicked talk that they're talking about as lawyers, when the camera just goes through the room. And even one of the guys is like, talk to him on the phone. And make sure to record everything it's like, you know, you're just being asked to me, I think one of my favourite characters in this film and a lot of his you know, his lines are great. I think he's a great character he's he's a well written character in my opinion, anyway, is like our patina is the devil. I just think he's quiet and yeah, Milton is just really cool. He always comes out with like, you know, words of wisdom and turns a phrase and I just quite like his writing. You know, I even use some of it still, sometimes the worst advice advice is really kind of Yeah. You know, I send you a sheep's amongst the walls. ALPA Chino is having the time of his life in this way. But I mean, I guess pretty early on that ALPA Chino is playing the devil. You know, he says things like, Look at me. Underestimated from day one. You'd never think I was a master of the universe. Now, would you? Yeah, you know, he speaks several languages at the party. There's these ancient paintings on the wall. And Lomax finds out, you know, there's no bedroom in the apartment. Oh, I love that like, less than an hour in the film. The only thing missing is like the red horns on his face. And a sign saying I am the devil. Yeah. I love that scene where he basically says to me, he goes to his office. He's like, Where's his bed? He's like, doesn't have one. Well, where does he sleep? He says he sleeps but what is he fuck and Al Pacino comes out of nowhere. He's like, everywhere it's just ridiculous. Brilliant. I love it. I mean, but what I didn't see coming is the fact that Lomax was Milton son. That was a kind of a cool twist. Because again, I think the film was never really hiding the fact that helper chinos character was the devil, because it just wasn't subtle at all. But this reveal was about the blue but I kind of it kind of makes sense because Milan has been manipulating Lomax this whole time, so he can fulfil his true potential, you know, becoming this horrible, lying lawyer. Then Milton reveals himself as his father, and it's like a nice family reunion. Then again, in this like, podcast, we find another film where the sexy was actually in says, you know, Connie Nielsen's character was his sister, which is pretty weird, because there's one bit where he gets quite jealous of like ALPA Chino, because it's the first time he's been formally introduced to her. And, you know, they're talking on the balcony where I said, it looks pretty much green screen. And he's getting on and she's like, Are you sure? You know, your wife won't get jealous and all this shit. And John comes out of nowhere and like, you know, he's touching her and rubbing her and shit. So it's like, does he fuck his daughter? You know, he must do you know, I mean, he's the devil. Who cares? Yeah, it's weird. It's evil, but then it gets really ridiculous. No, it's not just a family reunion so they can rule the world. No, Lomax has to shake his own sister to create the Antichrist to rule everything. But Milton can only do it with free will. And not for one moment did I think this is going to happen? But what I didn't see coming was Lomax shooting himself. And then it's like shoddy CGI law. Then the writer just goes Fuck it. He can just time travel, just beat go back inside. When he was a lawyer in Florida and make it a nice Hollywood happy ending. Then the writer takes another tequila shot as he's writing this film. thinks I know. Let's make the annoying press guy turn into Alpecin look to the camera and say, finally, definitely my favourite scene. And I was in stitches laughing my head off. Wow, what a movie. Yeah, I was like, this is Hello. Because you know what we talk about, like movie twists and stuff. You know? And I think the great. Put aside your brain for a moment. Just think how great this is. Every time you talk about a good twist and a movie needs a good twist at the end. And most movies even after they have a good twist. They have like maybe a second twist to keep you on your toes. This film is like, twist. He's the devil twist. He's your father twist. You can produce the Antichrist twist. You've killed yourself. Twist the devil. He's gone back in time to have another go at this. And twist. He's actually the press guy that six fucking twists crammed into the last 10 minutes. I swear the writer of this was drunk at the end. I think he was hired. I think it was on every drug known to man. It just it just makes no sense. And just and that's why it's brilliant work. That's why it's brilliant. Good. I'm gonna disagree. It's brilliant is a strong one. That's why it's the best movie ever made. But I mean, you know, there are some amazing lines in this film. Like some really disgusting ones as well from Albert Gino. Oh, yeah, alpha chinos greatness. I'm the hand up Mona Lisa skirt. I'm a surprise Kevin. They didn't seem to come in. Yeah. Lloyd as your attorney, I'm advising you to keep the fuck away from me. I'm thinking why don't we put you on the stand so you can jerk off to the judge? I like what was it where it meets to having you know sex with his wife, or girlfriend or whatever. And he's like, you know, what did you do to her? What did you do to Marianne? And he's like, on a scale of one to 1010 being the most sexually deprived Act known to man being your casual you know rendezvous at the low max residents not to be modest we got it on at about a seven Yeah, no, but he says the seven in a way he does. That's brilliant. Yeah, at that moment in acting as well. Free Will isn't in a bitch. I think my favourite line though, is part of our keynote speech near the end. And he says every one of them getting ready to fist fuck on sex planet. Yeah, like that. Fingers clean. Right up there next billable fucking hours. I love that. I do. You know I had that speech memory day. Really? I lived really had that speech memorised one time, but I kept saying to myself I was like that is great. Kept saying it to my brother saying that to other people. That was a great speech. That speech your favourite line? Yeah, I think I think that full on speech is like my favourite My favourite thing. Yeah. Do you remember actually this other line I want to say is like, where he asks him, like, why lawyers why getting the law and he's like, because it's the ultimate backstage pass. We're in everything. And then we're gonna get acquittal after acquittal after acquittal, until the whole stench of it, you know, fuckin like, what was it? Like? It's like, they kill them up in heaven. You know what I mean? Everybody in heaven dies from the stench of it. I just thought it's great. Apart from the great lines in this film ain't great. No, the screenplay isn't at all I think you're kind of right. It's kind of badly paced. It does drag there are a lot of things that don't make sense. I think there are a lot of lines that are also like piss poor like really bad cheater gets all the best Yeah, patina gets amazing lines. But yeah, I think most other lines that kind of either repetitive, redundant, you know, a bit on the nose, or just like really cheesy, so there's a lot of stuff you can you know, that's just completely pointless. I don't think this film falls into the category. It's so bad. It's good. I don't think I think it's just bad. In my opinion, we're gonna have to disagree there. Yeah, even on a rewatch I was still I mean, the same, the the end is just absurd, and makes no fucking sense whatsoever. To me. I mean, I've only seen it once. But I mean, come on. Labour up before you. Watch it. Watch it drunk all the time. I think if it makes you laugh, you know, it's a good thing. You know? i Okay. 6.4. Yes, if I wouldn't say just based on ALPA chinos lines alone, I think he's one of my favourite devils. I think he loves having it and chewing up the scenery is just incredible. I love his smile. Love is all the time. Yeah. But yeah, he's great. I love everything he does. And you know, Charlie's there on a you know, as I said, I kind of like how she goes crazy and stuff in HERSA. So if I would just get to go on Alper chinos, lines, I would give this like 10 I'd give this 11k But if I went on, like, you know, other things that the skirt like story structure and other characters and stuff, I don't know. Yeah, I'd probably go like I don't know, like, you know, even very low, maybe like a 5.8 or something. So I'm gonna kind of meet it in the middle because I really like those lines really late. So I'm gonna give it like, I'll give it like a seven Actually, I'll still give it seven right acting. First thing Keanu Reeves buying Charlie's thrones ass is a bit much in a club. I thought the fuck is going on? Steady on, dude. get kicked out. Maybe it's different in this. Oh, yeah. No, I was gonna say another thing. I like the where? Sorry, I just got to mention this quick where he's, he's hanging out with Kevin. Oh, you know, he's Lomax Neo, whatever calories and you know, he's seeing him talk and stuff and they're at this pub or whatever drink restaurant and how he just whispers to this girl's ear and she just goes down on him like in front of everybody. And he's just smoking so yeah. Yeah, I have Yeah, ALPA Chino is just having the best time as the devil in this film. The scene before like, Lomax Milton go out, go out at night to this like boxing match and then to this Spanish club, and he's dancing with these flamenco dancers. You know, Alba Gina is so funny in that moment with this girl. Yeah, and it's just like, Yep. Go to town. The end is wait. In the middle of the restaurant, wherever you can see. Smiling is yeah, we kind of covered a lot of acting. I think we did. I think I think we're bound to because I think this film cannot stand under its own weight. You know. Without ALPA Chino, we have nothing to talk about. It just like, crumbles under its own weight. So I think we've got to inevitably keep talking about his performance. I think the only other thing I've got down that we haven't talked about is if you wanted an extra clue that if you weren't sure, you know, 100% sure that ALPA Chino is the devil is when like Lomax his mother Alice played by Judith Ivey comes to visit and she's all happy to see son, but when they bump into Alba Chino in the elevator, her expression just flattens for no reason. But obviously later, you know that they slept together in the past, and it's already established that she's very religious. So the only reason she's acting like that in a glum way is because ALPA Chino is the redheaded dude read Corn dude, the horny dude. So the so obviously when I watched that for the first time without knowing what what was going to happen, I just got the connection that because she's a very religious person that she could just sense that he was the devil immediately be I thought that choice was was quite good in the film as well. Yeah, to be fair, yeah, favourite performance powers. Yeah, man, it's gonna be opportunity. Mine is actually Charlie's the wrong I knew you would probably pick that actually. I knew you'd pick that. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I am a big choice around fan. I think she's amazing in everything. Yeah. I mean, she is brilliant. She is brilliant. And I think she she's better than Keanu. And I do like, again, like her descent into. Well, you know, insanity. I mean, like, this stuff is crazy. And it's very believable that this is crazy and worrying and scary and frightening. And she cries she's panicking, you know, it's all very believable. You know what, she's a great actress. I would still give it to Albertina, just because he's so much fun. I think she gets all the best. Yeah, sad worrying, like dramatic stuff. He just gets to have a lot of fun. And he's the good time. Yes. Yeah. He's got a good time. He's he's having a devil the devil of a time. He's the devil. Yeah. And I think he's just he's just I just love watching his scenes over and over again. Yeah, they're just full of so much energy. I did get the sense that his some of his acting is is a bit over the top. Oh, yeah. No, it is it's it's he has. He's really hamming it up. It's not subtle. It's not something that I think it's intentional. I just can't work out whether they were just trying to make it ridiculously obvious, literally from the poster. That is the devil. Yeah. Well, I mean, the film is called the devil's advocate. He stood up, you know? Yeah, it's there. Even there are lines where it's like, you know, why don't you go to hell and stuff like that, which kind of really on the nose. Yeah, you're like, Yeah, he is definitely the devil. You know, he is 100% the devil. Yeah, I don't think they're really being that subtle about it. I'll go. I think you know, Charlie's Thrawn Connie Nielsen are really good in the film. canneries is fine. And Alba Chino is ALPA Chino, so I'll go like 7.7 a tap generate Whoa. Holy numbers. A lot of holy numbers. I got seven, seven. Set Size. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. What are you going with? Acting? Yeah, that's pretty good. Oh, man. I'll go Yeah, fuck it. I'll go 7.7 as well. Let's make it all biblically in alignment, correct? Yeah. Okay. Right. Let's add up the scores. Then for the devil's advocate. The devil's advocate gets 43 points. Right down the bottom. Inhale, down to the basement of hell. In 60s. Really? Jesus Christ. Yes. I mean, Satan. Enter the Dragon and the Amazing Spider Man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. You're pretty harsh on this one. All right. Fair enough. Yeah. It was just so funny. You know, that's my problem. Well, I had an amazing time, but I didn't think I'd be laughing. Right. My choice then for Keanu Reeves films was a really easy choice for me. I didn't really have to think about this choice too much at all. I went with a matrix. One of the best films of all time, in my opinion. Well, yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. And, and to be honest, it's a cheap pick. It's obviously gonna win. I think if you put it in even sci fi movies or anything that it's tangentially linked to you know, I'd pick the matrix. You know, I think it's one of the most influential films ever made, especially during our time of being alive, you know? Oh, yeah. I mean, Point Break came close. That's a great film as well. I do like though. Yeah, it's not gonna beat the matrix, though. Yeah, I like I like, right. But again, it's Scott. It's not anywhere close in my estimation to the matrix. But I had to pick now any of Keanu Reeves movies, and you know, if there's the matrix that I'm picking, it's just you got? Yeah, unfortunately, was my pick to go first. Yeah, I think the thing is like, because all I can think is, damn you son of a bitch. Because it doesn't matter what. You pick the first matrix as well, which of course you're going to but if you would pick like, loaded, I would have picked the matrix and just be like, No, I just have a matrix. A matrix off. Yeah, to just laugh. Okay. Oh, Pick the stupid one. Yeah, exactly. And if I'm gonna fail, I might as well fail hard. I might, I might as well. That was fun, though. So what happens in the matrix? Well, we kind of start off with this amazing action scene on face value looks like superhero action scene like they're superheroes or something. And then we get introduced to a character called Mr. Anders. And he has been on the hunt for this character called Morpheus. And Mr. Anderson is very much a computer hacker by night, and just like a computer programmer by day for this tech company, and he keeps getting these phone calls from a guy who ends up being Morpheus. And he kind of tries to get him to get them both to meet so they can, you know, tell him the truth about what the matrix is, and then the real world, etc. But he gets caught up with the agents and they get to him first, and put this like horrible bug thing in his belly button. I swear after this film, when I watched it the first time I was checking my belly button a few times I'm like, yeah, it was fine is gone. And then, you know, when when they finally do meet, Morpheus explains that this world is a computer generated world, it's all fake. It's it's all digital. It's not real. The real world is like a wasteland now a desert wasteland, and AI is taking over and trying to hunt down the rest of the human race to kill everyone and try and destroy the last city in Zion. So Morpheus tells Neo, where his real name is Neo. And that he is the one there is a prophecy that has been told that the one will return to save humanity from the machines. Yeah. Also, don't forget that most of the humans that exist are connected to the matrix. And they are so they're not just doing it for shits and giggles, the machines they use beings as a power source as batteries. Yeah, there's a lot to explain in this. Yeah. When you first watch this film, and actually, like, it's very hard to say go in blind because this film was such a, you know, has the hugest cultural impact, but there are still people that I don't think know anything about the matrix or know very little. So I was the action film. You know, whatever. Um, you know, the matrix four is coming out. You know, if you know, somebody who's never watched, it doesn't understand it, put the matrix one on, and don't tell them what the fuck it's about. Yeah, that's the best way to watch it. It's really, it's really trippy. Yeah, basically, this is a very, like, sci fi modern postmodern tale of, you know, the one prophecy kind of storyline that we've kind of seen a lot through the years. Like, obviously, recently, we've had dune that was obviously based on a book 50 years ago, which is all you know, the one storyline and, you know, and obviously, Star Wars kind of has that kind of thing going on as well, which was influenced by June. And this is no different in its core storyline, I think you can go back to you know, the one Storytelling The pinnacle. One story of our like, culture, you know, of humanity is the one of Jesus Christ, you know, so and this is very much like a digital retelling a very modern sci fi view of the of the Christ story looks like. He's very close. Like, it's also interesting with just the story of the making of this film, as well, because there was our skis were pretty much painter and decorators before they made this film, you know, they pitched this idea to Warner Brothers. And if they said like, no, to them, they're like, Okay, we won't make it. We'll just go back to painting and decorating. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. We'll give you the money and make this film, you know? Yeah. Apparently, didn't they do that with like, every change that Warner Brothers wanted to make? It's like, okay, fine. We don't direct it. You don't have it. We'll go back. Oh, could you make a change that no, okay, that's fine. We'll go back to this is a great way to get your film done exactly as you want. Like no compromise, maybe silly question. What did you make of this one, then? As I said, I've watched this film probably more times than I can count. Yeah, it's it's cultural impact, you know, is is just immense. And it's connective tissue like basically for most action films since then, you know, with bullet time and and all this other stuff. You know, it's just seeped in and and films that question the nature of reality and stuff. It's yeah, and I mean, it still holds up. You watch it and you're like, wow, it's still really good, you know? Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Even though it brought forth a new generation of conspiracy theorists. Yeah. Which is annoying, but there we go. It's a byproduct. Yeah, as a byproduct. I think if you do anything as heavy as this I think the great thing as well as it's, it's, you know, it's very philosophical. But at the same time, you know, it's having fun. It's just, it's also just a popcorn movie, you know that you can just like, oh, man, the cool visuals, but there's some really deep, deep stuff. Oh, yeah. And I love playing like the PS two game Enter the Matrix. I was addicted to that game. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, I played that quite a lot. Did you ever play Path of Neo? No only matrix? Okay, yeah, cuz I had both. I had entered the matrix. And I played that for years and years. And then much later, I got Path of Neo, I do recommend playing that actually rewatching this and all the matrix stuff. I'm going to plug back in my PlayStation two and play the path. And as it's great, you can do this really stupid move where you can grab two people and use them as nunchucks on a third guy. Right directing, I think the opening scene is still great, where at the time they do that thing no one had ever seen before where Carrie Anne Moss, who plays Trinity jumps in the air, and kicks a cop across the room. You know, the jump is all done in super slow motion. You know, we've seen slow motion done before but just with a static camera. But with this, the camera tracks all the way around the jump, which we had never seen before. And now you see it all in in all the big movies of today. Now it's everywhere. It's kind of oversaturation. Now of bullet time. Yeah, slow motion, the cameras got to move around the characters. But with this, they've used cameras like all the way around Carrie and moss in this green screen like still cameras. So that was kind of a really innovative, I was a very like new technology at the time. Okay, Porky? Yes, okay. It still looks awesome over 20 years later, but I think my favourite bit of the action scene is when when Trinity does this, like Superman dive for a window travelling miles then immediately feels the need to draw both guns after such a brilliant action spectacle. Like no, you're fine, but it makes the agents feel like really dangerous, even though we haven't really seen what they're truly capable of. Yeah, just a great opening action scene. Yeah. I think it's brilliant when you actually see what they're capable of. And the first inkling well inclination you get of that is where their meeting gets disrupted because Cypher has betrayed them. And the police are after them and police shoots through the wall and then turns into Agent Smith. And, and he has a huge fight with Morpheus. So Morpheus, he's just like the best character, he knows everything. He's good at everything. You know, he's trying to make sure that Neo you know, becomes the one and always confident always in control and he gets utterly demolished by a Smith. That's always a great scene. I just really love that scene, how it's how it's done. It's pretty brutal. It's still well choreographed, but it is brutal. He beats the shit out of him. Yeah, great acting by Laurence Fishburne. Yeah, it makes you definitely respect Morpheus because my favourite bit of that choreography is where he is smacking him down on the ground. He hits him on the ground, it's like Bang. And then Hugo Weaving, like kicks him in the chest and launches him up into the Whoa, yeah. And he's like, but then he just stands back up and it's like, you know, uses that momentum to carry on fighting. Like, I love the sequence when Neo gets unplugged from the matrix where this like mirror visual effects that's fairly common in movies of this era in the 90s. And it goes up near his arm and the camera shot goes down the throat, then cut to this kind of steampunk, Cyborg dark cyphy tank with translating goo everywhere. It's incredible. Yeah, I also love the sound I love the sound design, you've got to mention that like as he's, he's basically like, and then he starts screaming and it goes from a scream into a dial up modems. Like electronic dial up sound. Just incredible. And then he wakes up again, like very 90s technology written into the script, you know, and then Keanu Reeves has all these like cables coming out of him. She looks really horrible and disgusting. And the shorts kind of get wider and wider. And he's part of these huge skyscraper skyscrapers, the music gets more and more epic with the use of these operatic voices. And it's just incredible contrast to what we've just seen a huge jump in the look of the world. Also, I like the use of the mirror looking CGI before he gets unplugged because it just works so well in the sequence. Just like in Terminator two, they use the CGI with the same effects and I feel like the filmmakers know their limitations with the use of this technology because it's still very new. And you know, they don't overuse it where unfortunately pay overuse it in the CGI in the sequels. Yeah, I just just a great, great moment in the film. Just huge contrast in design. It's just, yeah, definitely. I do love the contrast between the real world and the matrix. Like everything in the matrix has a sort of slight sort of off. I mean, it looks like our world it is basically, you know, it looks like our world, but it's always like a NEO noir world. It's always raining, and it's always or it's always very gritty. And there's this kind of, like, greenish tint to it. Yeah, there's a there's a green tinge to everything. Yeah, like, green is everywhere. We have the reality of the situation. The matrix is green code, and is literally, you know, clever. Yeah. And the how the real world is, you know, it looks horrible. It looks like it is just great. Like how everybody's dressed so nicely, like so stylishly in the matrix, and they know Kung Fu and it's all done. Like, you know, Bruce Lee movies, that you go to the real world and it's just nothing looks great. Nothing is graceful. It's all very metallic and blue. And I love that contrast. It's blue and it's but what's great about that in the real world looks real. Yeah, it really does look real. There's no like tinge there. Everything has like natural colours to it. Yeah, so it's just so clever that I found it very difficult to choose what my favourite shot was like what my favourite action scene was there are two that are amazing. But this one not my favourite but like it's still really cool is the action scene when Neo and Trinity shoot up the lobby near the end? Yeah, it's just pure gun porn and a massive tribute to like Hong Kong cinema to things like you know, hard boiled etc. Plus, in this scene, they make like wirework look really good. There's so many bad examples but in the context of this film, where you can bend the rules of physics it just works on a tonal level alone and plus it looks so fucking stylish. Yeah, like the slow motion running following these boots and watching all these like shell casings bounce on the ground is so satisfying to watch and just how like the all the walls are just basically exploding this debris everywhere just so much like this the soundtrack as well to do it's just incredible, incredible music credible scene it looks phenomenal. Just some really great choreography as well like action stuff. One of my favourite bits has got to be where Trinity has run out of ammunition. And this guy is shooting me Oh with a shotgun and she kicks the stalk and it Yeah, back it basically back flips behind his back so he catches it and shoots him in the back. It says a cool move you know, and the moment at the end with a piece of pillar falls down is funny when it gets like a nice simple wide shot. And then you think like nothing can be that for gun porn. Nope. Neo rocks up on a massive helicopter wielding a massive mini gun and shoots the hell out of that building then the scale of the action goes up another notch with the incredible helicopter stunts and explosions just incredible spectacle at the end. Again like we were talking that we've spoken about many times this film saves the best action stuff yeah for the end for the end and especially I would even say like one on one action scene because you see a few of them you know agents well Trinity at the beginning of running away from the agent Morpheus against Agent Smith. And then towards the end you get Neo against an Agent Smith at the Yeah, yeah. Oh, and I'm sorry, I forgot another one. Neo against Morpheus that the Kung Fu programme. So you get all these like solo one on one fight? You know, just using martial arts not gun gunplay? Yeah, inspired by classic Hong Kong movies. But then the best one, I think is the last one with Neo vs. Agent Smith is just such a great battle. It shows his progression as a character. And just it's so well choreographed. There's you know, oh yeah, I felt like it was a little on the nose though with the spaghetti western start but but what I liked about it is that it feels very evenly matched but then like Smith gradually gets the upper hand and is dominating with like the flurry of punches when it kind of blurs it just puts into doubt is he actually the one by love the moment when Agent Smith catches Neos arm and just just before he hits him in the throat, and then Neo sticks out his fingers and catches him on the throat. Yeah, and he goes oh, that was funny. That was brilliant. Yeah, I've never seen any like fight scene do that ever. It's so weird. Such a weird but like the your your hand stops just before the neck and then you just left. Yeah, yeah. If anything I just looked like it's kind of annoying. It's doesn't look like it would be. But then when Neo seemingly escaped Smith instead of the characters on the hovercraft Just watching Neo trying to escape you now have jumped double jeopardy where the Sentinels are now hunting them hunting them down and cutting through the hull of the ship plus Neo trying to desperately get to the phone all the characters are now in danger which is just brilliant writing and then when Neo you know comes back to life after he gets shot then the action just is just so cool where you know near just fight Smith with one hand and stops all the bullets in midair just really really cool. Never before seen action. That's what you want in Great Cinema things you've never seen before. And this film delivered delivers that in spades. Yeah, really? Yeah, it does it again and again and again just throughout the film. Favourite action Well, favourite shot favourite action scene or favourite scene what we're going with Yeah, so I'd say favourite scene is probably the lobby fight favourite shot, do you actually I like when he actually gets shot by Smith that always that always shocked me as like, you know, he gets to the door opens the door RING RING RING RING opens the door and you just see a flash like he's there and a flash you don't even see the gun flat. And he looks down it's like, and then he's Smith right there and just bang bang bang bang bang you know, it's quite simple, but it's still incredibly effective. Especially how it's all done like that as I was saying like, you know, sounds like it's the music as well but how it's going to ring ring and the intense music intense music is starting to Peter off because it's like he's nearly succeeded, you know, the machines there he needs to get get shot and just all the music cuts out. And it's just natural sounds of you know him dying. And it's just like, I mean, they definitely slow down the gun sound effects and make it quite quiet as well when shoots Neo Yeah, and then go back to normal speed when he when he just opens out all the clips. Yeah, weapons out the clip, you know? Yeah. So that's a great scene. And you know, it should be great because I've been, you know, it's building up all this that he's that these Messiah is the saviour and then he's dead. And you're like, No shit, and they're gonna die. Oh, no. For me though. I think my favourite action scene is the fight between Neo and Morpheus, you know, in the training programme is always great to watch. You know, the fighting is so smooth and slick. And, and so as the camera work, stop trying to hit me and hit me. Both elements work in unison in unison so well. But what I love most about it actually, on these rewatches is that it's the music changes. At first, it's weird. It's very traditional, like Asian music with lots of deep drums. And then when Mel says Morpheus is fighting Neo, and everyone rushes into the control room to watch. And the music changes to this like techno fast paced music is music change, and just work so well. Then to end when Neo wins, you get this great like fusion between score and the traditional music. The traditional Asian music I this is going to be like a cool, like serious narrative progression for the character. All done mostly with music, you know, it's really, really great scene Josh never get bored of. Yeah, actually, I'll tell you some other good, good shots that are really good, you know, upon further rewatching Oh, wow, that was a damn good shot that doesn't get enough talk about when he goes into the jump programme. That was fucking cool. Yeah, they're just a white void, you know, where they load, you know, training programmes. And it's just goes, they're just falling. Like, at the end of this white void, like millions of miles below is the city. So it's like, I'm basically on the building. And then the camera shoots back up at the same speed. It's a really disorienting scene. You're like, What the hell did I just see? You know? Yeah. Yeah, that was really cool. And you know, the helicopter crashed crashing into the building. That was? Yeah, that's pretty awesome. So directing score, what you're going for, oh, man, you know, I'll go major high on this, because I just I love this film. And I still get a kick out of watching it again. And again. Yeah, I'd go like a 9.6. Or something really? Nice. Yeah, because like all the breaking of physics rules. If you were in the action, it doesn't look jarring at all, because it makes sense in this world. So it's all written into the script, or into the direction as well. So you can just do what you want, but it still looks it doesn't look too crazy. It still looks amazing. Like everything about like both worlds, the matrix and the real world is so well realised the so are so much details to it. So I think that they're very distinct and they're even, like distinct styles of of shop, you know, and how you film the scene if it's in the matrix or if it's in the real world. So I'll go 9.4 Irving screenplay then. I mean, I always found that the Romans Trinity and They have is a little thin. But on the rewatch, it works more and more for me. Because in the opening moments, the seeds are sown for their relationship and the opening dialogue scene, we have green numbers like fluttering on the screen and Trinity wants to go into the matrix, even though it's not her shift to seek out the one. And Cypher says, You like him, don't you? You like watching him? And then Trinity says, Don't be ridiculous. I found that her love for Neo is not front and centre of the story. But it's more subtle. It's the more subtle part of the story, you know, a look here and there from Trinity and Neo, certainly reactions from Trinity watching Neo in the Matrix. I noticed more when he fails the jump programme, and you can see she's like, you know, like that. Yeah. And and then when Cypher is like, everybody fails, the first chunk, isn't that right trend, and she's helping him out, like get simulation, stuff like that. Or I like you know, whereas like, you know, what did the Oracle tell you and she's about to say, but then kind of stops itself. And even like when he goes to see the Oracle and it's like, you're much handsomer than I thought you were going to be I can see why she likes you. He's like what is like you're not too bright. But I think because the world is so well realised with so much detail, the idea that the film tries to tell you is that whatever you can believe the mind can believe to. So for me, Trinity gives him the belief through love that he can come back to life at the end. So I think that's what's brilliant about that scene is that you can't really explain it very well through words like I'm demonstrating, but only through kind of what you see in the film for Trinity and the age relationship. So they don't make it terribly obvious how Neo comes back to life, which I quite like that there's a lot of ambiguity there still. But you've got that ambiguity, because the the worlds are so well realised, you know, I mean, did you have a problem with that? What would love bringing him back to life? Yeah, him coming back to life in general. Yeah. I mean, the fact that it was like, there were Jesus parallels. Yeah. Throughout constantly with Jesus and Neo, and being the one and Jesus, there's constant parallels. I mean, you know, Jesus died, right. So it's like, and came back to life. And it's like, yeah, this is probably going to happen. So you know, I don't have any problem with him coming back to life, if that's what you're saying. And the moment when which he did. It's just right at the end. And you think that he, he is the one at this point, and he dies, but then he comes back with true powers, like the true one power. It's not like, you know, he's a bit better at fighting and all this other stuff that he was demonstrating before now he is full on a God now he can do whatever the hell he likes, you know, the fact that that's LinkedIn to love. I mean, you know, they're getting you send this subtle clues that there's, you know, there's a romance thing, there's a love thing going on. And you know, that love being, I mean, you know, it's a bit corny, but you know, like, whenever, I don't think it's corny, I think it's quite well subtly, you know, written into the script, because it's not front and centre. It's not front and centre. Yeah, it's kind of one of these things that's revealed. Well, basically, she says to him, at the end, when he dies, the oracle told me that I would be in love with a dead man, and that man would be the one so you can't be dead because I love you. Yeah. For me, he's alive. I think there is kind of an explanation. I've been like, well into like matrix law. And I think this is a problem because if we were to pick the second matrix, the second one at the end does explain everything. But it's done in the worst exposition scene that has ever been put to cinema. The architect, the architect, the architect literally does explain why everything happens, and why it happened the way it did, but they needed to rewrite that because he used every word in the English language except words that people use. So and it's so monotone, like it's monotone, and he's using, he's using so much archaic speech, you know, like Risa V concurrently, you know, ergo that you got no fucking idea what he's talking about that that seems been parodied like hell and I think for a lot of people the the matrix sequels sequels make no sense and I've had to like constantly explain because it is explained like the entire series is explained logically in this one scene in two, but it's so hard to fucking decipher. Yeah, but that's another kettle of fish. I think they dropped the ball Yeah. But this one the pacing and the explanation is pretty good. He's gonna He's a cyber Jesus. And obviously it's love that resurrected cyber Jesus so you know, I mean, I really don't mind the fact that that most of this film is exposition and world building because the exposition and well building is so compelling and amazing to watch. But why really liked about the exposition or the backstory? scene in the White Room is the film kind of flips the whole humans being dependent on AI thing on its head. Because we've seen so many AI films where in some part of the story, humans have become dependent on machines, and they kind of turn on them or whatever. But in this film's backstory, after the war, the humans blotted out the sun with, you know, co2 gases, nuclear gases, or whatever. So the machines lost their source of power. So the AI machines in this film have to breed humans because they have their own natural source of heat. Yeah, and I quite like it. When Morpheus says, throughout human history, we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's a brilliant point. Because again, yeah, most sci fi films, it's like, we invent machines, and we rely on machine in this. The machines basically, they've wiped out mankind, they are invent, they are reinventing man. They are growing men in test tubes, because they need to them to survive. Whoa, very, very trippy premise. And so original. Yeah, it's very, it's like the filmmakers are like, yep, we are done doing something completely new here. Yeah, you've never seen before. Yeah, definitely. And then at the end, he says, The Matrix is a computer generated dream world built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this, Morpheus is then holding up a battery, you know, the backstory is so well constructed, and told that you feel you can, you can tell that the filmmakers have spent an awful lot of time working out all the fine details in this story. And nothing is left unturned in the concept of this world. And that's why the whole prophecy and the one storyline works so well, as it does, because it's not bogged down by you trying to still work out what these worlds are. The world is so well realised that there's enough room for for your imagination and wonderment that you get all the cool, you know, Neo Neo stuff at the end that you can enjoy all that. Yeah, you know, yeah. You know, I think there's, you know, there's many other like speeches. And I mean, this film kind of excels in as I think you were saying, like exposition giving, but it does it in such an entertaining way. And it's phrased so well. And it's done in all these scenes where it's really nice. It's like, it's world building, but it's kind of like poetry as well, just how they explain. Yeah. I love when Smith goes over the history of the matrix, and basically, is trying to give an impassioned analysis of his like contempt for mankind. But you know, yeah, exactly. Like we're like a virus and I absolutely love that because he's like, Do you know the first matrix was designed as a perfect world? Where everyone would be happy? Yeah, it was like it was a disaster entirely crops for loss. It's like humans only excel in misery in a perfect world. You'd you know, you'd always try to wake up from it. I just love that shit. Yeah. That were a virus and all this other stuff is great. And there's also you know, obviously some what's the face the Oracle. I love her scenes. I love her. I think she's great. We could literally do a whole podcast on that scene. Yeah, it's there's so much to unpack and even rewatching it I found more stuff to unpack. I love bits where she's like, oh, yeah, well, she's like, Yeah, don't worry about the vase. And he's like, What vase and turns around and knocks over a vase. He's like, Oh, I'm sorry. It's like, don't worry about it. And he's like, so how did you know he goes, here's the kicker. Would you have still knocked it over? Had I not told you about it? Yeah. Yeah, I love that scene as a great when near miss Jarocho when she's, she's very underwhelming grandmother type who loves to bake cookies. Yeah. Did you notice the pun there that she bakes cookies? No cookies on computers, you know? Oh, yeah. You're on the internet. You get a cookie. Right? Yeah, that's incredible. Script is so detail. It's so so tight. There's just like, little easter eggs everywhere. And yeah, little, you know, double meanings, triple meanings. Yeah, well, well done. And she's basically says to him that you're not the one by telling him exactly what he needs to hear. Yeah, to become the one Yeah, and like foreshadows pretty much everything that's gonna happen later on in the film. Yeah, I think she does it in a brilliant way. Because she says like, you're not the one but then things she says off hand do end up being true. Because he goes, Yeah, she goes, Oh, yeah, you're not the one sorry, kid. She goes, You look like you're waiting for something. And he goes, what? He goes your next life maybe. And I just love that because it's like, he's going to die and be the one in his next life. It's like, whoa, that's just crazy. Like it's a throwaway line, but it's actually like yeah, and she says things like, you got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something. Yet your next life maybe? Who knows. And of course at the end Neo dies and comes back to life because Trinity and Neo fall in love. It's great writing but my favourite piece of foreshadowing is when she says don't worry about the vase, you know that whole scene there at the start. And then Neo knocks over the vase breaks it and asks, How did you know? Then she says, what's really going to break your noodle later on is? Would you still have broken it if I had said anything, and it's such a great line because it tells you that new still has to become the one himself, no matter what people say to him to try and help him. And the article telling you he's not the one doesn't matter anyway, it's all up to him to be the one when it matters. The most important part of the scene is hidden right at the star with the vase like the rest of the scenes kind of all nonsense, really. As I said, we could do a whole podcast on that scene. Oh, yeah, really. There's so much detail in that scene. Just about the themes of the movie about fate and determinism and freewill and destiny and nihilism and, and just all kinds of shit going on. Yeah, love and religion and stuff. But that's what I found about that scene. For me, the most important part is that little vase bit, but it's kind of hidden at the start, like, the rest of it doesn't really matter. It's kind of just that bit, because what I think is pretty cool is at the star, and through a lot of the film, he has been told he's the one but he's not a very believing person I love when he first meets Morpheus and he goes, Do you believe in fate, Neo? You'd like no, why not? Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own damn life. You know? We are not anyway, man. Yeah, it's all fake. Yeah, well, yeah, digital digital. But um, but I love that. It's basically he has to make the choice. So it's kind of meant to be a compromise between these two things. Yeah, he's destined, but only if he chooses to. And then when Morpheus gets captured tank and Trent II think the only way to save Zion is to pull the plug on Morpheus, because Morpheus has all the codes to the Zion mainframe, but Neos like no, he starting to believe that you can save him because he thinks Morpheus is more important than he is. Which brings out the awesome action in the O's abilities to save the day. But if he was told by the Oracle, that he was the one, they would have pulled the plug on Morpheus, because there would be no point risking his life for someone that's less important than he is just such great writing. They're just like a story. So yeah, definitely. I know. And also, it's him, he has to make the decision because she says to him, you know, you'll have to choose between, you know, Morpheus, his life or your own. And he goes there and he saves Morpheus, and he does end up dying. So he does make this choice to be his salvation. Because again, she could have just said, Yeah, you're going to be the one if you die for self sacrifice, and then you're going to be well, it's not really a selfless sacrifice. If he knows he's gonna come back at the end of it. You know what I mean? But he thinks now he's just a regular guy. And he's doing this because it's the right thing. And he might die. He's probably going to die. He still does it. And that's what makes him worthy. As well as this script being just a great story. It's just got so many kick ass lines. So many. No, Lieutenant Your men are already dead. Yeah. Yeah. I love the you know, we were talking about the the dojo fight scene, like how did I do you think my strength or my speed has anything to do with my muscles? Because you think that's air? You're breathing now? Like, yeah, he gets that a lot. Apparently, a lot of people come up to him. And he keeps saying to them, Do you think that's air? You're breathing now? And they could lose their shit when they say, Oh, yeah. Do you remember? His whole thing? There was a thing on the internet because obviously this time the internet was quite new. Everyone thought it was Samuel Jackson in the field. Oh, yeah. Really? Not long. Yeah. It got to a point where literally Samuel Jackson has got a t shirt of him saying like, I am not Lawrence. Yeah, he did that on a Tet televised advert was not an interview where the interviewer said, like, he'd done this commercial where he played Morpheus. And he was asking him about the commercial where he had played Morpheus and he was like, What the hell are you talking about? I'm not Laurence Fishburne. I'm not Morgan Freeman, either. It's really embarrassing stuff. It's funny. You have a social security number. You pay your taxes, and you help your landlady carry out her. I love how he says that because he looks like he's really kind of disgusted. He's like, Yeah, all right. Tell me, Mr. Anderson. What good is a phone call if you're unable to speak? You take the red pill. You stay in Wonderland. And I'll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. It means buckle up your seat belt Dorothy because Kansas is going bye bye. Yeah. Because if you had told us the truth, we would have told you a shove that rabbit pull right up your ass. Was it was another line I really like I like the movies where he goes late so this isn't real and he's like real. How do you define really talking about what you can taste, touch and smell if that's real, then real is just electrical impulses interpreted by your brain. Yeah. mind. Mind Fuck yeah. Welcome to the desert of the real tank downloading news combat training and says, Hey, Mikey, I think he likes us about some more Aeleus I know. I know. Kung Fu. Yeah, show me. Come on. Stop trying to hit me and hit me. What are you trying to tell me? I can't dodge bullets? No, no, I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready. You won't have to. Just brilliant lines. One of the funniest ones. When mouse is trying to hook up in the eye with the red wolf. Oh, yeah. Switch says digital pimp hard work. Yeah, believe it or not, you piece of shit. You're still gonna burn. I think almost the whole cast gets great lines, human beings or disease or cancer. Play. And we are the key. I love because I'll get this in the acting Actually, no. Okay, I'll get it here. Fuck it, whatever. But you know, I love where, like Agent Smith. I just love him as a man. I think he's a great villain. You know, waving, Hugo Weaving is just brilliant. But how he's like, so calm and controlled and monotone. And he's in charge, and he's dispassionate, through most of the film. And as the film goes on, he just hates being here. He hates the matrix. He hates humans. He hates everything. He just doesn't want to be around, you know, everything disgusts him. And I just love how he gets more and more pissed off and irritated. And just that facade of control just goes down. And the best scene of that is where he can't interrogate Morpheus. And he is like, leave me with him and takes out his plug. I hate this place in prison. This is do this reality, whatever you want to call it. I can't stand it any longer. Smell, even though even if there is such a thing, you know, it's just yeah, I just love that. I love that characterization of him as like, he's meant to be this faceless machine this like Terminator thing. And then it's like, no, he really doesn't like it here. Yeah, he shows some great individual individuality from the rest of the agents and kind of really great progression. They literally are faceless machines. He's just one of them. But then he does at that that scene onwards, you know, he separates himself out from the herd. He's very emotional. He's incredibly emotional. But he's trying to hold it back. Yeah, he's showing lots of anger. And you don't expect it to see this. And you don't expect it from like a computer group programme. But again, it's this development of like aI through weavings acting, which is great the way he like delivers those lines. You know that he's just sick and tired of the matrix and just wants to consume everything is brilliant. Plus the way Fishburne looks like he's about to throw up on Hugo Weaving is just great, too. Yeah. Showing the whites of his eyes like Brucey in the last one. Yeah, he's got eyes like adults eyes. Back to lines. Obviously. Dodge this blows the Trinity. That's cool. But my favourite, I think is just a simple one, which they say John Wick as well. Guns. Lots of guns. Yeah. But yeah, I think that was a greatest homage to that film. Yes. Well, you're gonna need guns. Yeah, I've got a favourite from the list. Yeah, I mean, I think we've touched on like, most of the script, essentially, I think we've just just transcribed the entire script. We've just said it well, but if you had to pick one if I had to pick one I think I would pick like Hugo Weaving and just him actually his speech about human beings being a cancer or a disease. That's really that's really great. So score bars weekend for for screenplay. Oh, man, I would go stupid high just because of how Yeah, how I can quote most of this movie. And like, a lot of the dialogue is quoted everywhere. It's such a quotable film. I'm gonna go stupid high. You're gonna think I'm insane. I'm gonna go 998 Yeah, yeah, I was thinking the same thing. There is one negative I have of the script, though, is we've cyphers character because you get this kind of intrigue that he's not a fan of the real world. He's he's like, Agent Smith. He's getting a bit sick and tired of the real world. And like, he tells Neo that when Morpheus is telling him he's the one he's like, Man, how can you handle that shit, you know? Must be crazy. So you get the sense that he could be dodgy but then the literally the next scene, it tells you Oh, yeah, he's a bad guy. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think I think maybe that could have been handled better because From that onwards where they're going to see the Oracle and it's building, oh, everything's fine. It's like, you know that nothing is fine. You know, nothing is fine, because Cypher is a bad guy, you know that, you know, so it's like, where they get betrayed and they get Amber, you know, this is going to happen, but I think maybe that could be in its favour because you're like, oh, when's it gonna happen? You know, this is definitely gonna maybe it is pretty on the nose that he's a bad guy. I think even at the start, you know, the first time you meet him, he's a surly motherfucker. He hates it working in this crew, you know, you can tell he's also very negative. Anything that Neo is doing. Like he doesn't believe he's the one he doesn't believe in any of this shit. He doesn't think he's gonna do the fight programme. He doesn't think he's gonna do the jump programme. He's just very negative about everything. But and then I like his his talk with Neo Neo should have just immediately clocked on and told Orpheus you should have told them, but maybe because he was the new guy. But where he's like, you know, I know exactly what you're thinking. And he's like, What? Why or why didn't I take the Bloop? Yeah, it's just the juxtaposition of the fact that you get asked a question or this guy could be dodgy and then literally the next scene is answered yes, yes, just for definitely as you all go like 9.5 acting the in on this rewatch I found that Laurence Fishburne and he go weavings performances are very similar, especially noticeable before we get to the real world, like weaving as this agent programme like the cops of the matrix. Weaving has this very like controlled, calm persona about his acting. And when you first meet fishbones Morpheus, the acting style is very similar, but he's like this mentor type hero character for Neo. But I think both performances are like this, because they're not under this veil that the matrix has over everyone else, especially like Neo, at this point. Their performances make them stand out from everyone else. Plus, again, like what we were saying on Jaws with Robert shore. Fishman's performance is so captivating when he's describing what the real world is and what the matrix actually is that you just don't need, like a sneak peek into this world at this point in the film that you would imagine you need for such a complex world like this that needs a lot of explaining. But no, all you need is Laurence Fishburne. Yeah. Yeah, Facebook does a great job. I also think like his personality between being in the matrix and being in the real world is different. Like he is, again, a lot more reserved in the matrix a lot cooler, just everything is well, he uses cool in the matrix, very uncontrolled, tells you how it is very sort of emotionless, but also like, you know, a, he's a leader, you know, tells you to do this, you do it, you know. And he's also quite mysterious. But in the in the real world, he's very, you know, you see, even just his physical acting, he's more at ease. He's more informal, you know, he's a lot more kind and caring. He's understanding he's trying to explain things, you know, as best he can, he looks a little more vulnerable. I just, you know, I like that. Because as you're saying, like, you know, Morpheus and Aiden Smith, are essentially very similar in how they act. When you see them in the matrix, the start with their again, you know, just this unmovable forces, they're very much in control. They're very mysterious. But over the course of the film, I think they they, I think more than Agent Smith and Neo, they're more juxtapose Yeah, they essentially the same character. One is for the side of the matrix. One is for the resistance, human resistance. But as I'm saying, like, as the film goes on, they both have that calm leader, like gravitas to start with. Yeah, but then Agent Smith turns into like, he's, he's just a surly mean, dickhead, that kind of falls away. And actually, he is really aggressive. He's very, he's almost not got control of his rage in disgust. You know, so that kind of falls away. Whereas Morpheus, when you see him in the real world, and onwards, he's a much more vulnerable character. So I think there is like, they start off at the same point, but then they kind of go different ways with, like, this hope is being realised from Neo. Yeah. And you know, that that's making I think Morpheus softer, but making Agent Smith, like more hot headed and angrier. So I think by the end, there is a definite difference in their performances. But I think they start off at the same point. I love the moment from Laurence Fishburne again. When he kicks Keanu Reeves through the wooden beam in the training programme and leans forward and says, You think that's a you're breathing now? You kind of said that. Yeah, but I love the way he does this subtle smirk and then like, looks away a few times, and it's just a great funny moment for the character. Yeah, no, I like in a fairly humorous film. Yeah, it's just great moment of levity i think i think is really funny, but just how we how he does the facial acting of that how he's like, you know, it's just kind of like he He's amused at the naivety here is like, you know, I can't believe I you know, I used to be this stupid. It's like, it's just it's quite nice, quite cute favourite performance violence. You know, I think I'll go Laurence Fishburne actually. Yeah, that's mine as well. Laurence Fishburne. I think he's just he just has this quality to this film that can't be matched. Yeah, I don't think it's something you can really put your finger on it. It's just as soon as he's on the screen, like you hear about this legend of Morpheus. He's looking for Morpheus. Morpheus once you hear him on the phone, but when he actually meets Morpheus, it's like this, this myth. You know, it's been built up, and he doesn't disappoint. You know, he's just, he seems like a mythical character. You see him and you're like, holy shit. You know, this is the guy. This guy looks incredible. He sounds incredible. You know how he's doing it. That's why I do feel a little bit good that he's not in the new one. Yeah, no. Resurrection. Yes. Anyway, it's a bit like, really couldn't get Lawrence back. Yeah, no. And I was even hearing an interview is like he wasn't even asked. So it's not like he was, you know, fired or had a falling out. You still get somewhere with them or not that he said he wouldn't do it. They never asked him. So it'd be interesting where that film goes without Laurence Fishburne. Yeah. scroll bars, in fact, oh, yeah, I'll go. Yeah, we haven't really mentioned Keanu Reeves all that much. I think he's essentially becomes like a side character in his own movie. I mean, he's really good in this because he all he has to do is just look really cool. Yeah, he's so good. Through this film, through the first half, he looks confused, which I'm in the second half. Just look cool. And you know, he's got that down to a tee. You know, that's just his like, natural, natural thing. It's like, what? Oh, yeah. You know, there's a wrist to emotions. And he plays those pretty well. I mean, when he's doing these, like kung fu moves just before he's about to fight Laurence Fishburne. It does look a bit weird. With the expressions on his face, like you tone it down a bit. Just look cool. Not weird. So yeah, so where would I be on the thing? I'm gonna go. I think it's really well acted. I'm gonna I'm gonna turn it down a bit, though. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go like 8.8 I'm not sure I'd go that hard. I think that is pretty high, actually. Okay. Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think that's really high. I'll go like 8.1 Actually think carry on. Moss is great as Trinity as well. We haven't really talked about Yeah, we haven't she she brings some great girl power. Great kick ass action as well. Yeah. Especially in that opening scene. She's amazing. She's really awesome. And obviously that there is a lot of characters in this and a lot of like the crew members of the never never the ship. You You are such a Porky Pig, man. I don't mean you don't like that name. What does that even mean? I don't know. Never conyza They never Canessa Yeah, it's in the Bible actually did it's kind of funny because of how every name sort of has meaning. But Morpheus is a God in Greek mythology. And he's the God of dreams. Oh, really. And the Nebuchadnezzar is a king in, in the Bible, who had a very strange dream. Like God gave him a really freaky dream. What like he was a hovercraft. I actually it was he was intrigued. He was a tree, a tree, but a hovercraft would be amazing. So I'll go 8.3 I think, right, let's add up the scores for the matrix. Right? The matrix gets a very, very healthy score of 54.7. So that goes in sixth place. Between Blade Runner 2049 and Toy Story. And Mad Max Fury, right. Yeah. So we are now going to take a break for Christmas. So we might be back around the 15th of January. And we might be looking at relating our podcast to screen screen five on his own. He just called screen but it's screen volume. Yeah. Well, it's just this unhealthy notion of movies, making sequels and not putting a subtitle or a number. You know, it's really starting to piss me off. Too many films are doing it's really bothering me at least with the matrix they had the goddamn decency to put resurrections they just put matrix so you might relate that one to Where's graven films, so that's not confirmed yet but we'll Yeah, that's what it is at the moment. And obviously you might be thinking are you going to be doing a spider man one because obviously there's a huge spider man film coming out soon. I think we've done like all the spider man. But we have done a lot of Spider Man fans. Yeah, so what ones are we missing? Actually, I think we did. We've done Spider Man two. We've done Amazing Spider Man. We've done have we done are from far from home. We don't I'm coming now into the spider, the spider verse. That's four of them. Yeah, so check out our Spider Man films episode Tom Holland. Emma Stone. Yeah, those ones pretty much for our spider man episodes. So yeah, have a nice Christmas and we'll see you in the New Year. Bye bye. That's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like to find out more about the podcast or suggest future topics for us to discuss related to upcoming releases. Let us know on Instagram at film versus film podcast and on Twitter at FPF underscore podcast. Remember, please subscribe pod signing off