Guillermo del Toro Films - Crimson Peak vs Pan's Labyrinth

This week on the podcast a certain Mexican director is trying his hand at film noir with Nightmare Alley which will be hitting cinemas around the world, and of course that director is Guillermo Del Toro.

Warning we will be talking SPOILERS

Martin's pick this week is his take on the haunted house movie, the gothic romance, (a little bit horrible film, but don't tell del Toro that) Crimson Peak. On this one we discuss how predictable this film is, and what is the true mystery here. Plus whether or not you should watch Game of Thrones before watching this film. Don't worry it make icky sense. IMDB page

Boaz's pick for this week is now the classic fairly tale (and a little bit horror film and I think del Toro will be fine us saying that), Pan's Labyrinth. On this one we talk about the films incredible ending, the most evil character ever and why Ofelia was temped by a grape. Seriously! IMDB page 

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Transcript

0:19

Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England, if you enjoy this podcast, please leave us a review and subscribe. This week on the film versus film podcast, as nightmare alley will be hitting our big screens around the world. And of course that is directed by the one and only Guillermo del Toro. Surely he's the one and only I thought I had one in my basement or something. Maybe that was just a Santa Claus or something last time that I looked he might might have been there. I don't know. As ghosts usually do, he can't wait till his introduction. I'm joined by the resident ghostly figure that inspires Dix How are you sir? Whoo. That's just me like way Yay. So excited. I'm doing pretty good. Awesome. As always, we have a buy me a coffee account. So if you want to say a big thank you follow the show notes below. And you can buy us a coffee and send us a big thank you. That would be amazing. Right? My pick then is a fairly even though it came out quite recently as a fairly unknown grill mode. Guillermo del Toro film cuz I think when it came out, and a lot of people didn't like it. And I seem to quite enjoy it quite a lot. And I was like, again, one of these cases of did I watch a different film? I think it's possibly the fact that I researched this a lot before watching it, I think, you know, listening to a lot of interviews from the cast and deltora himself that he specifically said that this is not a horror film. This is like a gothic romance. Yeah. Well, in his eyes, he didn't see this as a horror movie. As such, even though there is a lot of horror elements in this film. But essentially, it's a romantic film. Yeah. And also another issue really with people is that I think this film is impossible to market properly. Yeah, I think the producers Well, I guess gamma was just like, this is a gothic romance. And like, we don't know how to market. We're just gonna mark it as a horror movie. So expectations are just like, Yeah, this is a horror film for people and then people will say, you know, this naturally disappointed, I think, even though the, you know, the scares are okay. Yeah, I would actually say, I think there was a kind of similar thing coming into this because at first I wasn't sure if I'd heard of this, but I remembered I'd seen trailers for this. And I had seen, you know, promotion for this whenever it came out. And so I'm starting to watch it. I'm like, Oh, okay. And I'm kind of on the edge of my seat thinking this is a horror film, because I remember that's sort of how it looked like it was being marketed. But I think you're right. I think it was Miss marketed. I think the only real Gothic romances I kind of know is Rebecca, like the two versions of Rebecca. Yeah, it's kind of similar to that sort of romantic ghost the story a lot like this. I went with Crimson Peak just to see if it was any good still. I mean, there's a lot of Gamble's at Toro films that we all know that are amazing. And obviously when I announced gamma Toro films, I think you said Pan's Labyrinth before I even finished is now Yeah, even though it's my turn first. I liked like shape of water a lot. Yes. Was pretty it was fine. Then it was basically between devils backbone, and this one. And I kind of didn't and I've never seen Devil's backbone before and I didn't want to keep going down the route of I. I'll pick this one because I'm seeing here. So I went with Crimson. Pete basically, I'm double checking. Yeah, I liked it on. All right. That's interesting. I was gonna say there are other kinds of ones I could have picked Guillermo del Toro I could have gone like Pacific Rim, which is a stupid film, but dude, I fucking love that film. Yeah. Like that was incredible. I love that film. Yeah, it's fun. So what happens in Crimson Peak? Well, in Grimson peak, we're introduced to a young lady in wild Victorian era America. A lady called Edith Cushing and her mother dies very young age and her ghost comes back to haunt her. It's more of a warning. She says beware of Crimson Peak. And then it happens again when she's fully grown into my was a cow skor as Edith Cushing and then, one day a Baronet, called Thomas sharp comes to visit her father, because she's the Cushing's a very wealthy family, and he's looking to invest money into this new McClay mining machine. So you can get funds to build that properly in England, Cumberland. But as the story progresses, Edith and Thomas fall in love or appear to fall in love, then they get married, they go back to their house in England, this house is incredibly old. I mean, that there's even a massive hole in the top of the roof is literally sinking into the clay. And they're joined by Lucille Thomas's sister play by Jessica Justine. As the story progresses, you kind of realise very quickly that the sharps have basically Mary Thomas to eat if for her money, and her father gets bumped off. And throughout the film, she seems willing to to devote her life to Thomas and share all her money with him and the sharps. But throughout the film, you just get this funny feeling that it's not all as it seems. And lots of blood and ghosts appear in this film. And many deaths. So what did you make of this one then bounce? Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I liked it. I will say I had like some problems with it. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, ultimately, I think where it kind of excels is, you know, it's got quite a small cast is one of the things so it's kind of tight knit and sort of, yeah, fairly focus. I like that. It's the mainly the three cast members of you know, Mia, Jessica Chastain and Tom Hiddleston. And I really like their performance. I love Jessica, just testing in this. I think you just mentioned that, but I thought she was incredibly scary. She's a very scary woman. You know, it kind of now makes me very scared to approach her if you ever see her. She might stab the bejesus out of you do whatever. Poison Yeah. Yeah. And I love the visuals in this film. Again, you know, this is something you cannot fault. Guillermo del Toro on the visuals, and this film is visually quite amazing. You know, I think where I kind of have problems and we'll get to it when we get to it is like is kind of the script. I just felt like it was a really good idea. But a lot of it just seems really cliche. You know? Like, I could kind of tell where everything was going. And I just don't think there was enough in it. It felt like a really nice appetiser for something bigger. But that was all it was. You get kind of Yeah, it felt like I got a taste of this like a little bit. Yeah, really epic story. And there were some cool bits in it. But it just didn't fill me enough. You know, I'm trying to use an analogy. And I like eating because I'm a fat bastard saying. But yeah, I mean, we'll talk about this, you know, when we when we get to the script, but overall, I thought it was it was good. There was just I just don't think the script was quite there yet. But you know, so directing then. As he said, visually, I think this film is stunning. I think. Del Toro definitely has this brilliant like flowing camera. He seems to be like one with the camera just knows how to use it so well to go from scene to scene and place to place. Whilst you know tracking the character is probably better at that in Pan's Labyrinth than than in this film. But, but I think possibly the downfall of this film in one aspect is certain parts of the directing actually, like the first half an hour hour is directed like horror film. There are a lot of suspenseful moments of you that are designed to get a scare out of you. Because I think the film probably should have focused more on particular characters rather than certainly the star then more of the scares. Yeah. But I think this the scare I preferred the most is probably the second appearance from the ghost when he did stall rattles open and there's nothing there then cut straight to the black ghost in full view in the corridor, then, like a sharp movement, you know, and then the screen made me jump. Actually, when when the goat goes come through the door didn't particularly work for me because I think the rhythm and the timing of the sequence just made the scare. Predict Yeah, yeah, in that bit, but that initial just cut straight to that mid shot of the go. So Oh, yeah, it's right there. Yeah, I kind of agree actually. And I think The first couple of times with like, the mother's ghost, especially, you know, when it comes next to her and all this stuff, it's like it's creepy in theory, and it looks great, but it doesn't really scare you. Yeah, there are a few of those with the Spectres and spirits you're like, Man, this looks awesome. And there is some suspense building, but I think you're right, it's like the ghost coming at you or whatever, it kind of happens in a way you'd think it would happen so it doesn't really like surprise you that much. There's another good scene when where Edith is getting out of the bath and again, the scene starts with a very creepy shot in a corridor on the ghost in complete silhouette and it gets closer to eat if and there's a brilliant like smoky feel to the ghosts but this one's like all red in the house in England and the way it lifts his head up to reveal on its head is completely caved in was really and it's got like really long fingers is a really creepy look. The sound is very unnerving to like this this burning sound as it moves on the sound of insects is certainly a running theme in the in the film Yeah, I quite like the design of the ghost. Yeah, I thought the design looked pretty amazing with its skull caved in and had a sort of look like a sort of pattern sort of thing going on. It looks fairly realistic even for what it is where it's like this an intangible like red mist energy thing, but it looks like surprisingly practical when it's not you know? Yeah, I think all the CG is like all that this smoky burning feel. But I think all everything else is pretty real. And they you know, make it look see through as well. I thought that was brilliant. Some other scenes like I quite liked with the like the Red Ghost you know, when it's sitting in the bathtub, I thought that was pretty creepy. Oh yeah. With the sword that materialised or whatever the machete that materialises out of its skull and and then it kind of you know it's breathing. And it comes after you know, and that was that was pretty damn cool. Yeah, I felt sorry for that ghost there. She's just trying to take your disturbingly exactly like knock on the door for fucksakes Let the ghost take damage you know, no privacy so I mean I love the visuals of the house. I think the house looks awesome and you know the the hole in the ceiling and the snow. It's everything looks really great. You know where she was thrown off the balcony as well. And yeah, I thought that looks amazing. And you have always this ever present red clay that's moving through the floor. I just think that all of that looks looks really cool. Certainly the colour red is very much a running game in this film. I like the way Del Toro mixes it up in the scares where EDA thinks she's heard a noise in a cupboard and then a Red Ghost like slams the door shut and EDF opens the door again and there's a load of like wax cylinder recordings and then you think the scare has passed but no all of a sudden a ghost is trying to get out of the floorboards and chaser I thought that was quite yeah that was in kind of mixing the rhythm of the suspense up not as good as something like we've kind of discussed in a night shall a man films where he was kind of a master at at that in signs especially I quite like the little showdown Lucia when he does have the ends in the snow. I always enjoy some nice cat and mouse directing, which I think works well here. I Justine's movements are made more expressive with this like big flowing gowns. Yes. Yeah. She's wearing you know makes it look like the female version of Dracula at times. Yeah, it's like really bloody to like EDF cuts loose seals hand twice in the elevator when her hands tuck in the elevator. Yeah, and Lucille catches ETFs knife in her hand and there's like blood gushing everywhere. The whole setting is amazing to watch as well with you know the stark contrast of the white of the snow and then the blood red flash red clay. Great visual set piece at the end I guess. Plus seeing Tom Hiddleston his ghost is quite creepy, but in like white times this time and not red or black, which I found quite interesting. Yeah, I found that ending. really epic. And very beautiful. Yeah, you got a favourite shot then or favourite sequence? Okay, yeah, favourite shot mainly because it made me go whoa. I think was the only part that made me go like what? Not so much in in like, I think it's the same as mine. Yeah, I think it was the shock really. It's like Tom Hills sins, stabbing, holy. she stabs the hell out at home. And then what was crazy is when she starts stabbing she stabs him in the face. And then his eye goes like blood red. He's in shock and you know, obviously just looking at her and then cries tears of blood and then passes. I was like, Oh my God. Yeah, that's my favourite shot as well. Like I found Thomas's death quite shocking with Lucille is stabbing him basically because he's portrayed her and then all of a sudden stabs him right in the cheek definitely made me gasp out loud to saying like, Whoa, yeah. audibly made me go. Yeah. And when Hiddleston is literally pulling out the knife that was, that was quite horrible. Yeah. To score bars, what are you going for? Yeah, so to sum up my opinions on the direction of the film, I think it's directed superbly, in so much as it looks great. The set design is great. It's a very colourful film, you know, for what it is, especially, you know, where it talks about its Crimson Peak, there's a lot of reds, and a lot of great use of reds and contrast of rays. The visual effects are really amazing. I would say my major problem with the directing, we've discussed this before, but it's that it's not a very scary film. You feel like it's meant to be, but it's not. And I think a lot of the jumpscare there are some bits that I thought were genuinely like, whoa, you know, why was it scary? Or why was individually great. I think it was Whoa, as in visually just like maybe gory or what, you know, I didn't expect it to go that or any steps, way she stabs in the face. Yeah. And also when her father gets his head smashed in. So like, those are particularly gory bits. However, it's like the build up to these events. And most of the scares are just not scary, because there's a way you can do jumpscares there's a way you can build to scares, and I find the Guillermo del Toro just hasn't got it quite right. Like he builds up the tension. But then he kind of gives it to you, when you think you're going to get it. Do you know what I mean? It's like, build it up, and then you get it when you expect to get it. And I think that really undercuts any fear. You know, when something scary, it's genuine, because you didn't see it coming. This is why we were saying, you know, on another episode M Night Shyamalan and signs that he he ramped up the tension gets you right there, and then doesn't show it. And then when everything's deflated, then it just comes out of nowhere. Yeah, you've relaxed you've like, oh, well, I guess it's not good. Wow. But I don't think you're mandatory does that in this film. He builds it up for a couple of seconds, but then it jumps out at you when you expect it to jump out at you. So I feel he he didn't quite succeed with the scares. But I think visually, it's a stunning film, visual effects of great costumes, set design, everything like that. It's just phenomenal. I think I do get the sense that I gambled Atari was kind of setting himself up to fail a little bit with this film, because I don't think he in his mind's eye, I don't think he really wanted the ghost to be particularly scary. I think he kind of wanted the ghost to have their own particular arc. He didn't want them to be really unlikable. He wanted to Lucille, and to a certain extent Thomas to be the more unlikable characters, not the ghosts. So I think certainly throughout the film, are going to this morning screenplay, but they they do become less scary on purpose. Yeah. So I just feel like that's always going to be a really, really difficult task. Yeah, in a story like this, whereas in other films, when the monster characters are not technically the monsters, they work, it works a lot better. Yeah, I think I kind of agree. However, I mean, you could sort of throw a curveball at making the ghosts at least appear to be you know, malicious and evil. And then do a twist reveal. But when we even get to screenplay, it's like, there aren't that many. There are twists. But there are not big twists. Because again, it does feel formulaic. It feels like you can sort of guess where everything's go. But yeah, I think you're right. I think this is more to do with an issue with the screenplay. That blip bleeds into the directing, as you rightly said, like they're not really meant to be villains that the ghost they're meant to be like, warning of, you know, what their Lucille and Hiddleston are doing. So score bars we're going to go for for directing. So I had been thinking before have like a really high one, just generally because I quite like Guillermo del Toro. And I do like the visuals of this film, I think visually great. I would still give it high, maybe not as high as a nine maybe like an 8.8. Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't think I would go as high as that. I think Pan's Labyrinth is probably a lot better director than this. I think there is one not just the screenplay, but I think there is one key direction or thing that I don't think deltora gets right. And that's with casting which I'll certainly get on to in screenplay enacting as well, but I think fundamentally, the director, as we've said, a lot of people say 90% of directing is casting and I just feel like the chemistry between Maya was a cow ska and Tom Hiddleston just isn't there. Yeah, compared to you know, Tom Hiddleston and Lucille it's just it's not compelling enough to root for EDF. Yeah, I think I agree. I think even when they're, they're wooing each other. And then he asks, I to me, I thought that came out of left field. I was like, Wait, he was wooing her, like, I was like, what now? And then it became the main plot that they were married, but I do see what you mean. It was like, I don't really see them. As a couple. I just didn't really buy the chemistry there nothing against like, my wife was a counsellor at all. I think she's an amazing actress like Stoker, amazing film. I think sometimes when you've got a central romance like this, and to great actors, sometimes they just don't work. And unfortunately, it falls into this trap. With this film, maybe just a few more screen tests from deltora would have would have worked. Possibly, I mean, certainly with that last personal taste for others, they might see the onscreen chemistry, but it didn't work for me as well as it should have for this type of story. So I'll go with like an 8.4. For directing right screenplay, then. I think the first 40 minutes are quite interesting, where the film establishes very early on that the shops are in desperate need of money, and Thomas chooses Edith to marry her for the money to repair their house and to stay alive with her money. But you get the sense as well that it's not that simple that something else is going on here, but you can't quite put your finger finger on it. There's scenes where he diffs father, Carter Cushing suspect something's not right with the sharps book comes to the quick conclusion that it's because he's in debt, and bribes Thomas to leave his daughter but then someone killing him seems to be very extreme. If it's just for money. Then there's the scene in the park where Thomas wants the engagement ring off Lucille to ask ADA for to marry him. And Thomas says to Lucille, this is the last thing we have to sell. Then Lucille says, You are not selling it, we are buying something with it. And she says it with a very like sinister in a sinister way. Like there's something else going on here. It's not just for Edith's money, you know, so I kind of like how the script so is the seeds of like, making it quite obvious that Thomas is marrying EDA for the money, but it's not that simple. There's something else here. And that's the mystery in this film, you know, which I really enjoyed. Yeah, well, I kind of enjoyed the setup, that there was this great mystery, but I think if you just step back and think about it, there really isn't a great mystery. In it, I feel it's more of a good setup, and then not really a satisfying payoff to the mystery. I mean, at the end of the day, they just want our money. And ultimately, what it's for is to stop the house from sinking, you know, under this red clay, which I think the the place is cursed, and they're, you know, in a incestuous relationship as well, and that they've murdered before that they've done this before, but I feel like I could have I worked that out fairly early on. Yeah, really, I'm not sure if it's just like I you know, I'm a genius or whatever, or I've just seen this plot set up quite a few times, and I could sort of just, I just work this out. You know, it seems it seems like a logical conclusion. Maybe I'm just a dumbass. Really? Did you know? Like, I don't know, I just kind of worked it out fairly quickly. So I would say like, to me, that would be my gripe with the screenplay, is just how quickly I kind of got on to what was going on. And still, there was investigation going on, and she's still trying to work out. I'm like, come on, I know what's going on. And I was right on the money. So I was like, Okay, fair enough. But I mean, did you still enjoy following the story, even though you knew Yeah, no, I mean, I enjoyed following the story. Regardless of that, I think there could have been things done that to me would have made it less obvious. So in my opinion, don't make them seem so evil so early on, or make Thomas seem more evil than she is because it's not so much a twist when she is really the scariest one, like, from the off. Do you know what I mean? No, I don't think there was ever supposed to be a secret. She was batshit. You know, no, I know about this. But I'm just saying I think my enjoyment of it would have improved had it felt like there was there were twists and progression. The whole thing is a mystery of you know, why they want to marry and there's some conspiracy going on. I'm saying I felt like I kind of worked it out fairly early on. And I think I would have enjoyed Had there been better or more twists. So do you know what I mean? Just just a little more mysterious. I just, in my personal opinion, I just found a bit too easy to work out. I know they're evil from the off. I know. They're poor, or something's going on with their finances. I can work out they're desperately wanting to marry this check. He's found out something in the paper. I could just kind of work it out. It's like, yeah, they're gonna they're gonna take the money and killer on there. You know. And then when he's talking about, you know, wasting a fortune and trying to, you know, keep the house or flow. It's like, Yeah, I'm pretty sure of work this out. But I still have to get her to work this out. I think it was enjoyable, how she worked it out. She does some very cunning things. I like the scene where she steals the key. And that whole, that whole part there I thought was very clever. But to me, you know, at certain point, it really wasn't a mystery. I kind of had worked everything out. So that's my major. My major problem with the screenplay. It was like, oh, yeah, okay, that's it, you know, but it kept going. So I still did enjoy the cat and mouse run through it, but I just wish it was more of a surprise or more unique, what they were going for, you know, I've seen films where, you know, the ghosts are just there to warn them that they're humans. And I felt this was very on the nose. And it was just very obvious to just Alright, well, well, yeah, that the ghosts are not a harm to her at all. They're trying to warn her that these people are psychopathic. Well, I was sucked into the story. And I was still trying to work it out. Because I just found like, the sense of being incestuous. So they caught me calm. That's not that's pretty good. Come on. It's like that. Since Game of Thrones. incest is now saying everything is everywhere. You know, it's now a lot, you know, my point is the New Black. You know, I got into Game of Thrones very late. I watched this fairly soon after it came out. So that idea that notion never really came into my mind. And then I got into Game of Thrones, and it's like, Oh, shit. Yeah. Because I you know, to me, I didn't find it too much of a like shocking twist or a veer away. She catches them shagging and whatever. And she's like, You're not his sister is like, Yes, I am and then throws off the balcony that seemed was cool. But it's like, yeah, of course, she can be like, you know, come on, man. This is this is opposed Lannister world. You know, everything goes. Anything. But I mean, at the point, when I was trying to work it out. I liked it. When needed escapes one of the ghosts down into the basement with the vats of clay. She finds a box with the words and no less sharp, you know, the focus of the questions, the film is always Well, for me anyway. This can't just be about money for the sharps who isn't Ola sharp? Is it their mother ex wife? Or, you know, are they in the box? The film always seems to give you another question and a moment of mystery to grapple onto about who are the shops really. And I enjoy trying to work that out. For the film, pre watching me friends. I just I just felt like they do set up constantly. And you know, a mystery. And as you're saying, Oh, it's got to be more. But I don't think there's a payoff that it is more than that. Like they literally are after a money. So I mean, what else do they want from her other than her money? Like, as far as I'm concerned anywhere in the ending? In case of miss something, there's nothing special about it other than she's rich, right. So, in my opinion, I think it builds up that there, you know, there is there is something they need from Oh, it can't just be a vast wealth, but it really is just a vast one. But that was not never the mystery, though. In this film. Mystery is what is the relationship between Tom and Lucille? Yeah, yeah. Again, I worked that out fairly. Yeah. That's the mystery of the film. I still thoroughly enjoyed it. And especially like, as I said, the, the cat and mouse of her, you know, trying to work out what's going on and going over, behind the sisters back. And I love the sisters character and how she's written. Yeah, she is really, really evil. She doesn't very well. So I do enjoy that. And I enjoyed the third act and everything like that. To me. I think I said this before, when I said my general thoughts on the movie, it does feel like a taster. And I kind of wasn't fully satisfied, I think. Yeah, I think part of that Mo is, is the fact that I could work out the plot fairly fairly quickly. And it does seem, at least in my mind quite cliche, like where everything was gonna go. There are specific moments in the film which I find interesting of how they reveal you know all the secrets and I think when EDF opens the vat of clay and it's revealed that there is a dead body in there and she makes the connection that Thomas has been trying to wed wise for that money in Edinburgh, Milan and now with EDF. That was never really the mystery as I said, but because it was obvious from near the star the reveal that Lucille was was killing her from the start with the tea was a nice reveal. I thought, yeah, I thought that was that was done tremendously well, where she's reading through the diary. And it's like, you know, don't drink the tea or whatever. She knows it. gramophone or whatever. Recording wax cylinders. Yeah, it was like don't drink the tea. They're poison and you're like, Oh, shit. She's always been drinking the tea she's been poisoned so yeah, I do think that bit was cool. I especially like how she's always trying to afterwards give her tea like she's very ill and she refuses it and just gives her the porridge and then later is like, you know, she won't drink the tea. She's worked it out. I'll just put the poison in the fridge, you know, like war, but I think what's great about this script is you still get the sense that the sharps are still hiding something and when Thomas confronts Lucio about why do we have to kill this one, must we, you know, Lucille explains that she'll be taken away and Thomas will be hanged. Do you think it's because they've murdered all these women? But they're acting is telling you something else. Lucille says, you couldn't leave me. You wouldn't and puts her hand around his face and Thomas says, I can't I can't. And Lucille says, I know. Well, they're both quite teary and again like, This doesn't feel right. They should be panicking and working out a plan not getting emotional in this tender way. And then of course, you find out that Lucille likes her brother more than one should. The real monster is Lucille she isn't just killing Thomas's wives for money. She's killing them for love. Because she loves her brother ill. Again pre Game of Thrones. I saw this you know, Lucille says to eat if the horror was for love, the things we do for love like this are ugly, mad full of sweat and regret this love burns this love burns you and means you and twists you inside out. It's a monstrous love, and it makes monsters of it's all really beautiful writing there and beautifully delivered from Jessica Chastain. But I think the problem for me in this film, I found myself rooting for Lucille because one Jessica Justine is amazing in the past as Lucille and plus EDF is just not a very interesting character. There's not much there to root for any disk character. Just a bit under it. And really, I don't I mean, after watching it, I'm like, I don't know. Other than liking Mary Shelley earlier on. That's, ya know what? Yeah, she's about Yeah, no wealthy, a little bit spoiled daughter. Yeah, no, I do completely agree with you. There is absolutely nothing to a character if you think about it. You know, she's a writer. She likes writers. And she wants to be a writer. This is something mentioned at the beginning, but this is something that has no bearing on the blog. So yes, I mean, she's just a she's just a rich, rich woman, you know, that's about it. And I was just like, yeah, Lucille Guetta. Because I liked that character. Yeah, she had a she had a lot of depth. And plus, I think I get a done a bear acting job than Charlie Hunnam. To be fair, he's a bit rubbish. I'm sorry. Yeah, he is pretty sorry. Yeah, not good. Yeah, there's some there's some cool lines in this film from EDF. She says your monsters both of you. I think Lucille says funny. That's the last thing my mother said to from lusail. You should have seen his sad face when I smashed it on the sink. Jesus, she had some really bad actions. My favourite line exchange is when EDF and Lucy are looking at a painting of Lucy's mother and he says she looks quite. And then Lucille says horrible. Yes. It's an excellent likeness. Yeah, that was funny. Have you got a favourite line then? So when they're talking about the butterflies that are, you know, dying on the floor, you know, she's like, you know, they're dying. They take heat from the sun and when it deserts them, they die. And she's like, how sad. I know. It's not sad either. It's nature. It's a world of everything dying and each other right beneath our feet. But she's like, Yeah, beautiful. Things are fragile at home. We only have black moths formidable creatures, to be sure, but they like beauty. They thrive on dark and cold. So what do they feed on? Butterflies? I'm afraid. I just remember that exchange, but I couldn't remember any other words. Yeah, but that's a damn good exchange of just like, yeah, she's the pretty little butterfly and she's the evil duck mouth. That's gonna destroy her. So screenplay score. waggon. With Mr. encyclopaedia, as I was saying before, like, I like a lot of the lines. I like the atmosphere. I like the the cat and mouse stuff. I love Lucille. However, I just it at least in my mind, again, you might disagree, but I just found it. Way to predict. Yeah, way too predictable. I just found the plot way, way too predictable. I kept thinking there's got to be more than this. And it just ended up panning out pretty much exactly how I thought it would. So because of that I'm actually you know, this is going to be a difficult one I need to sort of temper it but I'm going to go like about I'm gonna go about maybe like a 6.7. What if it was a little less predictable, I think Got it? Yeah, I'm just gonna go as low as that's quite like, that's my thing. I think what's probably important with this film is don't watch Game of Thrones. Yeah. Yeah, basically, I think everybody now who's writing some shit. God damn drama and his work. Yeah. So but I do I do commend delta for his bravery for trying a film like this the fact that this film is certainly to a certain extent paying homage to things like Rebecca and Daphne D'Amore in a gothic literature, Gothic romances of you know, the 40s and 50s. So I just feel like in a sense that this film is just in in the wrong time, in the wrong time period. For the wrong people, for millennials, just millennials just won't appreciate this film before as this film was released in the 40s, they would absolutely lap their shit. Yeah, so I commend his bravery for that. I think if people have that in mind, I know you should never have anything in mind before watching it. But I think with this one, you know, you should. So I don't know I'll go like 7.8 I think because I think Lucille is a great great character and Tommy Wilson's character is great as well. And I did enjoy trying to work out the real mystery in this film, so I think it's not as bad as people think. I don't think right acting then I read like the acting from Jessica Chasteen, who plays Lucille sharp when Edith and her brother are introduced to the party. She has these brilliant, steely eyes that she's displeased that her brother has brought this girl to the party and there's an amazing shot from the back of her when she's finished playing the piano after Thomas and Edith have danced together. She just turns her head slightly and slowly like she's hiding something. Then she walks with the fakest smile ever. Like she's pretending to be happy for the couple, but the down she hates it. It's just just just stain is brilliant in this film. Yeah. There's a lot of brilliant looks and stares Thomas and Lucille give each other for this film. To keep this sense of mystery in this film. Well to me anyway, when Thomas a negative light start kissing in the attic. Then I like the way Lucille is directed as she's storms her way in the room and in a graceful way with the tea tray. And Lucille gives Thomas A look of I know exactly what you're doing. And then Thomas looks back at her, like, just leave me alone with my wife for one second. I love the piece of acting from Jessica Chastain again. When elf tells her she spent the night at the Depo and Lucille snaps elf while like flinging a saucepan of eggs on to the table in a moment of rage. Then she becomes like really quiet and sad and says I was alone. I can't be alone, then enough says she doesn't feel well. And Lucille says, I'll make you tea. And it's like she snaps right back into this stern persona that she always seems to be in. Amazing acting from Chasteen going from Rage sadness back to her blank, annoyance so quickly is really satisfying door. Definitely. Yeah, I think she can turn off and turn it on. So effectively. I do like also the scene where she's like feeding her porridge, as we've said, Well, I think because she tries to leave and get stuck in the cold. And then she takes her in her. And that was a really tense scene. Because you know, she know, she now knows they're trying to kill her and all this stuff. I just love how she's saying, you know, I used to look after my mother like, you know, Father snapped at like a twig and shit like that. And you're like, Well, this is a pretty deep, dark conversation but the way she says it is like this fake sincerity. There's you know, and you could tell that she knows it's fake sincerity. And she knows it's being seen through just kind of like vague threats. Yeah, and the way she performs it, it's just really good and really kind of really creepy really tense. You know, I found Thomas's art quite interesting, where he's being pulled from pillar to post for love, you know, for his acting his love for Lucille that's always been there. And now he's falling in love with VDF. And as the film goes on, Thomas becomes less and less committed to the plans of poisoning the wives plan, you know, with this one. Ultimately, Thomas helps EDF and Dr. McMichael escape but ultimately it doesn't work because I said before you know, the chemistry between Tom Hiddleston and Maya was the cow Scott just isn't there. But the chemistry between Tom and Jessica is brilliant. You know, that's why I was rooting for They seal slightly more at the end. I wouldn't feel upset if he does. Yeah. By by her knife. So it's a long way back from that frozen wasteland maybe she just dies in the cold the north you got a favourite performance then? Well, I think you know we've just basically hit the nail on the head many many times with the Lucille escaped sledgehammer. Yeah, Jessica Chasteen this 100% Is is the best thing in this film. I do like Tom Hiddleston as you said, you know, I think when he's first introduced, he's he's oozing with charisma and charm. When they get to his house. This is kind of a facade. And as you're saying he does feel like a sort of, you know, showing inner torment of you know, his his strain between English gentleman, you know, his duty His love is and I think he does a really good job. I would say, you know, the character that plays even if the best thing that she does are looking, like worried, you know, looking very, very worried at what's going on and kind of scared. I don't think it's her problem. I don't think this script gives her enough to do emotionally she's searching for these mysteries. And she is shit scared because this is weird what's going on? And but beyond that, there is no personality beneath her. It's just a very archetypal character. And I you know, I think that's a shame but there are there are hints that you know, if she was given more of an arc, she would also smash it out of the park, but you know, score bars facting where you go, I'm gonna go like 8.9 Really? Yeah, again, most of this is going to go in seven to eight. It's just I find this funny because this is the second villain we've talked about played by a female that I think is just one of the coolest villains I've seen in a while. The other one blade runner 2049 Oh, right. She was fucking so cool. She was really scary and yeah, this one was she's She did a terrifying performances. You know, females have a serial killer. Yeah, I must say as well like, there are just not enough. Yeah. Great female roles in villain parts because some of these women as this one just they just knock it out of the park. It is far far overdue that we haven't had a proper female Bond villain. Yeah, I'm just like, how has that not happened? I just think that would be amazing. The only one really is in world isn't enough. Oh, Electra and maybe Rosa club in from from Russia, but like, there's no 25 films. I mean, come on. And we've just picked out two or three films with great female villain characters. So yeah, score for me for acting. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm a big fan of these three anyway. Especially Jessica. Justine. I think she's remarkable in this film. You know, even her English accent is really really good. I just think Charlie Hunnam really brings the side down. It's just a guide. He didn't do anything special when Pacific Rim. I mean, come on. Like Idris Elba. Yes. He killed the Chi Jews. My ring interest. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck Mackay Jews is Alba. Idris Elba was incredible. Oh, man, it would have been great. Yes, I'll go like an 8.5. Although I've never been a massive fan of Charlie Hunnam. Anyway, I don't know how he got any part that he did. Like he doesn't scream physician or doctor to me. I'm like, no, go away. No, leave me. No, I'll do like, yeah, it's like he got lost in this like, Oh, he's pretending he's actually like, you know, captain of the football team, but he's pretending to be a doctor. But it just doesn't make any goddamn sense. Right. Let's add up the scores and for crimson P. I have a feeling he's the janitor. And he's just trying to just trying to you know, lie. He's knocked out the greens and Pete gets a respectable 49.1. Right, Mr. encyclopaedia man, what is your pick for Gala? Malda thorough films. It's Pan's Labyrinth. Nice to Spanish game show. Very popular. Yes. So why did you pick this one? It's tonnes of phone. All the unsubscribing going on? They're all leaving. So why did you pick this one? I've watched it before. It's actually one of the earliest Guillermo del Toro films I've watched. So I was only really familiar with his work on some of his comic book movies. And that was about it. So when I was younger, you know blade to love played to watch that a lot that was his Hellboy Hellboy series Hellboy one and two really like them. And so I was more familiar with this comic book work. And this is the first film. You know, again, I was pretty young. I was in school, where somebody was saying, oh, Guillermo del Toro does more than just coming from you got to watch Pan's Labyrinth. And I started watching it, you know, got it on DVD started watching it. And it was in Spanish. I'm like, god dammit. But I watched it. And I thought it was just incredible. I just thought it was just an amazing kind of fairy tale fantasy film in like some horrible modern war torn world. And it's just I just thought it was a great movie. And so it's always stuck in my head. I yeah, I don't think there was any question. If you say Guillermo del Toro films, I immediately think Pantalon Yeah. So what happens in Pan's Labyrinth? Pan's Labyrinth is set in the 1940s in Spain, you know, so the Spanish Civil War has been like maybe a decade prior. And the nationalists have won. And you know, that they're killing the communists is like the politics is kind of in the in the background. It's not, it's not really that important. The main story is in this turbulent political world, there's a little girl a philia. Her mother is married to a captain in the Spanish army, who is tasked with killing rebels. It actually turns out she isn't originally human. So this is this is kind of strange, but it's it's where adds the fantasy element. She's actually a princess from mythical kingdom in the underworld, who came to Earth died and was reincarnated as a as a human child. And she's met by a fawn in labyrinth and the new digs that they have the captains quarters, who explains to her that she has to do three tasks. And then she can go back to her kingdom in the underworld. And so while this is going on, you know, the captain has his own plot of like trying to destroy the rebels. She has this other plot. So that's very real world very gritty, and very, war is hell. But she has to do these very fantastical fairy tale like, you know tasks in order to go back to a fairytale kingdom. So it's a it's a it's a it's a very strange like blend of the very real and the very historical with, you know, the the absolutely crazy and fantastical, and I think it does a very good job of that. I really, really like this film. I saw this film a long, long time ago, and I didn't really remember too much about it. I remember the THON and it was, you know, setting the Spanish War time so World War, but I didn't remember too much other than that. So Oh, and obviously the the pale face man. He was creepy as far as you know. Oh, yeah, of course, fine. I couldn't remember how this film ended. And when I rewatched it for the podcast, I was like, this is just an incredible and it hits you really hard in the stomach, you know, right in the fields. It's one of those simultaneously, sad, tragic, awful ends, but amazing, cathartic, you know, uplifting, brilliant endings, you know, at the same time, because some people might accuse the fact that you know that this underworld is under underwritten or under explained when she finally gets there at the end. But for me, I don't think that matters too much. Because the collision or the connection between the two stories is so powerful, that doesn't matter. You know, you're just left with this, you know, really powerful moment at the end. And yeah, if it was growing, right directing, then I quite like the way the phone is revealed. It's just a very simple like tracking shot on a failure as she's walking. Then the shot just drifts away to what appears to be just a rock, then a bird lands on and the rock burst into life and it's just some sort of ancient creature just really simple effective stuff plus the sound effects as he moves just shouts ancient is like he's made of loads of crazy old doors that need a good oil is great Gary says yes, all these although sounds come out probably because he hasn't moved in like centuries. I would say though, the first task A philia has to do is interesting, you know where she goes into the old like dying tree to retrieve like the golden key from a toad. It definitely gave me like Indiana Jones vibes with all like the bugs and creepy crawlies. The toad effects aren't great though I fell and haven't aged well, which is a shame. I feel like they could have come up with a creature that they could have done practically instead of digitally. Yeah, no, I kind of agree with you there. Like so much of the film's you know, effects and action are practical again. As you said, the forms a lot of the stuff is done practically. And it is kind of a shame that our first task does feel like really fake. And I often always forget about the toad button here, because one it's an underwhelming thing that happens fairly quickly. Yeah, and it is kind of a shame. It's not done. But you know, I think when you're talking about to me, the standout fantasy section is when in the Pale Man Oh, yeah, definitely. Room. Oh my god, they went full out. Like he looks incredible. And it's such a scary scene. Yeah, I mean, I quite like the preview of what Ophelia is going to see on each task in the magic book that she's given. You know, it just stimulates your imagination a little bit before you see what actually what actually looks like. And when you see the drawings for real in the scene, they look incredible, especially the Pale Man Del Toro doesn't do much towards great high tension in the scene just by putting the Pale Man in the background of shots, all blurry doing absolutely nothing. But because the design is so creepy and disgusting. You want to know where that guy is at all times. But the piece of food that tempts Ophelia is a grape. I mean, really? Like a nice sausage roll then. Yeah, sure. But a great. No. Get that fruit away. I think it's just because we're coming up to Christmas now. And my mum makes these amazing sausage rolls. I mean, a great, come on. He knows what to put on his table to get your giant full table of sausage rolls. Yeah, I thought that was also really creepy. Like creepy, where he's darting away the fairies that are trying to protect just grabbed Oh, yeah. It's like Nero cuz they had like really great personality I felt, you know, with the animation. So it was kind of a sad moment when they do. Yeah, I was gonna say that there's a interesting camera technique that is used over and over again in film that I never really kind of clocked on until that I watched it. And I think it's kind of interesting, because it's to do with cutting and editing. And I saw this in the first scene as they're travelling through the woods. And you have this the camera, you know, pans. It's like this pan cut. And it's funny because it's, you know, Pan's Labyrinth. But it does it several times. I don't know if you know, is where the camera will pan go past like a tree or whatever. And then cut again to another chopping. Yeah. And it's still panning. Yeah, yeah, it's like a pan cut pan. And I think every time it does that, I'm always thrown. We're in another area what's going on? And I thought that was that's an incredible technique that is not utilised that much. never really seen it. I just I don't know. It just stuck to my mind. I really like that camera work. You do like your transition. I love my transitions. I absolutely adore my transition. Um, you know, the more inventive a transition becomes, the more I like it. One thing I would say as well. This film has definitely been described as a horror film, not just a fantasy film. Like Del Toro loves his gore. The film is really gory at times, he would say the captain is a fucking Oh, yeah. He is worse than any make believe could possibly come up with man. He's evil. And like what really got me is where the first time you see his evilness on display. They capture some some people and they think are they're probably rebels. And it's like, you know, we're just hunting rabbits. And, you know, if my father says we're hunting rabbits, we're hunting rabbits. And he just grabs a bottle of like, you know, that's in their knapsack and beats the kid to death. Like he breaks everything in his face. And I remember the first time I saw that I was like, Oh my God, you know this got the the practical dummy of his face just being mush. And of course it's not his officers fault. He didn't like finish shooting their bag out before murdering them, you know? Yeah. Plus the squeaking noises from videl Captain puddles boots and gloves give you give the character like a really sinister edge and it becomes annoying, but like annoying on purpose. I feel like I definitely I also I kind of did gasp and audibly gasp and cheer like God that's gross. But yeah, good. He gets what he deserves. Where he's made or whatever. cuts his mouth. Like gives him a Chelsea Grin. Holy shit. And I think it's amazing that they kept it Yeah, the rest of the Phil you've got he's got this giant thing and then he sews back up again. Oh man, it just made my skin crawl. And when the cut the doctor cuts that resistant fight his leg. Oh God even though they cut away really quickly. It still made me gas. Yeah, no because I think The thing is, they cut away and well, it's preparing and you think they're going to cut away they're going to cut away they're going to cut away and do the first shore through the leg and then go away. Just before the guy screams. Yeah, that was very that was very unsettling. And when you see the aftermath of the guys, and after he's been tortured, the hand is nearly like torn into they don't shy away from that at all. Yeah, it's pretty gross. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it gets full on with the military stuff. And there's a very, like, similar scene in Crimson Peak, where Mercedes is stabbing the captain in the back and then in the chest a few times, then suddenly puts the blade in the guy's mouth. Very, very similar in way that structured Well, I also even how he dies where he gets shot in the cheek here. And then I get blood red. I think Guillermo del Toro doesn't like cheeks. There's something with him in cheeks. A cheek has to be stabbed or shot or cut. It's also one of the body parts on the face you don't see get much damage any other film. You're like on to Del Mar del Toro films and he is abusing the cheeks. Yeah, it's just like his signature way of killing the bad guy. Oh, yeah, we're gonna stab the guy in the face. Oh, that's horrific. Yeah. Yeah, straight through the cheek. deltora signature Have you got a favourite shot man or scene, my favourite scene is gonna be with the pale my entire sequences is scary. My favourite shot where the captain is running is like, you know, stop her stop her, and then removes his hand off of his cut mouth. And that's the first time you see is Chelsea. Like that always makes me go. I think that was an incredible, like, practical or whatever is a great, you know, visual effect. My favourite shot is a very simple one. Actually, I think deltora disguises his directing to make it feel really complicated, but it's not at all it's just so simple. You know, with the constant flowing camera. Just really great stuff. I love the shot in the rain when Mercedes and Ophelia tried to escape the mill under an umbrella. And Mercedes, here's something and shot circles around them but subtly moves in so the umbrella fills the frame. And when Mercedes turns quickly, and behind the umbrella, the captain and his men are right there in front of them, you know, and it's kind of masked, with you know, by the thundering rain. Again, just really great, simple, subtle directing. With such a fluid camera, the camera always seems to be on the move. Del Toro flows around the scene, keeping a nice pace to the film, you know, it's just really great stuff. So directing score for me for Pan's Labyrinth, I will go with a fairly high score think I'll go like an 8.7 I think for directing a producer will give it like a 8.90. Actually, actually, I'll give it a nine. Alright, screenplay, then. The film establishes the real monster in this film very, very quickly. That x Captain Vidal, he's casually talking to the doctor about his baby, assuming that it's a boy and the doctor says What makes you so sure the baby is a male? Then Vidal giggles slightly and says, Don't fuck with me. And it's just like, what? It's an answer that doesn't work in reaction at all. Like widow is just completely arrogant and convinced there's a boy, it's out of the question that it's not a boy, you know, just in that one line, you immediately worry for Carmen affiliates, pregnant mother, you know, if it's not a boy, well, then then the script goes into whether Carmen is going to live through the pregnancy, the birth, rather than the baby. I think one of my favourite lines is from the doctor when he's talking to the captain after he gave the tortured resistance site or a drug to kill him peacefully. And the doctor says it's the only thing he could do, instead of what the captain asked him to do, which was to keep him alive to question him more. Like the doctor says, I could have by didn't, then the captain says it would have been better for you. You know it. I don't understand. Why didn't you obey me? Then the doctor says to obey just like that, for the sake of obeying. Without questioning that something only people like you can do captain is such a brave thing to say bravery in a character like that. And knowing that he's probably going to get found out and die, you know, fills you with such emotion that separates who's truly evil and who's good, you know, and of course, the captain shoots him in the back. It's quite a powerful moment. I found that scene. I think a lot of the scenes with him are just really good and just like again, really, really tense. I do think he's, he is he is a very evil character. There's no question and he is very cruel. especially, you know, just before he torches, the star, yeah. And he sang the speech about just very casually, he's just like smiling. He's just got a cigarette, whatever, like, this is just a day at the office for me. And then he says to him, at first, I'm not going to believe what you say, then I will use this, then I will trust you more, then I will use this brings out something else, then we'll be like brothers. Yeah, then by the time I get to this, I will trust everything you say, is a knife. And you like Good god, this is just so. And then he just says to him, like, if you can count to three without stuttering, you know, I'll let you go. And like, he knows he can. But then he lets it one, two, and it's like, he just starts beating the shit out of him is like, why? Like, yeah, this guy is evil. I think beyond that, though, there is subtle hints that he is a more developed character. Okay, you know, beyond that, that he has a past because he obviously is very, like, he doesn't like conversations about his phone. Yeah. The whole broken watch thing. Yeah, cuz you see him constantly. He's always looking at his watch, just always looking at his watch. Even when he gets into an ambush. And he's like, you know, this would be a great time to die, and he's still looking at his watch. And he doesn't die then. And then you have that speech where this guy says, you know, I knew your father. And he said, When he died, he broke his watch. So his son would know that, you know, his time of death. And he's like, no nonsense my father didn't have even though he gets his watch out, like, every five minutes, every couple of seconds, yeah. But I think from this kind of conversation, and him, so it's like, I don't think he really knew his father. And his father was a great hero when died, like a man like a man. And I think he wants to have a son to sort of imbue that on to, you know, because he's a great hero. He thinks that that's just somehow carry on. But that's at least my thought. But you do get hints that there is something deeper here in his head, because he's so desperate to have a boy's name, not no go, like redeem well, to somehow redeem his own failings in this new baby, which I think is great how he finally bites the dust where after he kills a failure, and he takes his son back, and then the resistance, take his son, and he says to Mercedes, tell him the time I died. And you know that this is how a man should. And it's like, just cuts him off. It's like, he's not even going to know. Yeah, just shoot him in the face. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no, we will do that. I love the last 10 minutes of this film, because from the start, it's like you're watching two different films, one, a war film about the Spanish fascist military trying to seek out the resistance. The other film is affiliate trying to complete these three tasks in this fantastical world to become, you know, a princess in the underworld. And throughout this film, there seems to be no connection between the two storylines, I felt only a failure trying to navigate through both of them. You know, the war film element nearly takes over the film until the form turns up again to give the final task and the form says, this time Ophelia. You must obey this time and you're like, No, no, no, no. The form is just like the captain. You think the film is trying to tell you that this story is a tragedy that both worlds are as bad as each other but philia isn't know that because she's just the kids. But in the final task, is that I feel he needs to bring her baby brother to the forum. So he can use a drop of blood to open the portal to the underworld. You know, the blood of an innocent Ophelia brings him the baby but the foreign has like a massive knife and Ophelia is like Nope, you're not gonna hurt my brother. The phone can't really understand it and like you've hardly known your brother. This makes no sense. Well, I love how he goes over like all the like she's only shitty life and how baby brother is killed her mother and all this is like and even that you still want to save him? It's like Yes. Okay, very well. And, but I do love how that ties in together. Her trying to save her brother. She gets killed by the captain in it in the innocent blood. Yeah, it's hers. But when a philia gets killed by the captain trying to save their baby, you're well my first instinct was like, yeah, yes, this is a tragedy. This is a tragic story. But her blood falls into the portal and her spirit passes over to the underworld. And her ancient l father, as I like to call him, I guess says you have spilled your own blood rather than the blood of an innocent. That was the final task and the most important. The final task wasn't really a task at all. It was a test To see if a failure is simply a good person, a person who is willing to choose to protect their own family in the, in the final 10 minutes, the whole film connects beautifully in such a simple way that you just don't see coming. Like the, the whole thing is, is about being free to choose who you want to be and not obeying to people without question or, you know, and it's reflected beautifully in both worlds. Like, brilliantly it's just, I was bowled over by the end, I was like, this is I was just like, I can't see the connection here. What's gonna happen? And then it just it does it any like, that's genius. It's fucking genius. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I love how she's using, basically all the skills that she I mean, this is kind of, you know, Hero one on one, but all the skills that she has learned throughout both in you know, the fantasy world, and then in the real world, how to, you know, get one over on the captain. Yeah. And I really liked that using the chalk to open doors to his study and to escape and stuff. And also like, using her mother's medication, like pouring the whole of it into his coffee. So he would be very weak. And, you know, dosa is, you know, stuff like that. That was there was great. Yeah. And yeah, you know, how she ultimately does the right thing. Even if it's like she, she won't go to this, you know, Paradise, which is much better than her life now. And only for it to be revealed that, you know, her death is really what helps, but I thought also was a great touch on that is, you know, tragically her mother dies in the film, kind of underworld mother is the exact same actress. Oh, yeah. So to me, yeah. That got me into mines of like, is this a sort of afterlife? Or, like, I was kind of like, I think at that point, you don't really need to make some sort of logic into it. But but the visuals of it I thought were pretty amazing. It's like, well, he she does get to see a mother again, at least, or you know, a woman that's like, probably a contact situation going on the film contact, they're just looking like how she wants them to look like possibly. I feel like the film certainly represented how evil like Fascism is on the same level was something like come and see that we we've covered in war films, it got me in the same like emotional place at times during this film in the script, you know, so I thought that was really really impressive, especially like half of this film is a fantasy. And to have that same level of emotion in both films, both completely different really is really impressive. But there are moments of levity in this film, which is great. There are some funny lines. I just from like the the cooking maids is nothing but a fuzzy dandy fuzzy dandy. And with Mercedes and epic line where she says, You won't be the first pig I've got it cuts the captain's mouth. My favourite line is from the resistance fire that has to gammy leg and the doctor says to him, and let's see how that leg is doing Frenchie. How do you think it's doing? It's fucked up? Oh, that's just funny, because it's kind of a bit out of the blue, you know, to expect this type of humour. But it works. Well. You got a favourite line then. Or he's interactions with a philia even though they're not that many, they're really quite intense. Like, he just hates her. He fucking hates her for some inexplicable reason. Probably because she's a girl, you know? Yeah, just can be as simply as that. Even like, the first time they meet, she gives him a left hand to shake. And he just grabs it really hard, like her by the right hand and is like, you know, that's the wrong hand. Yeah, you know, and you're like, you know, to me that just gets you know, where he's at, through and like the level of danger she she's involved in. But yeah, so I would say my favourite bunch of lines. Probably actually let him tight. toying with the, with the guy that he's going to talk to Okay. Or, you know, even his his last scene where she's just like, your son will never know your name and stuff like that. I mean, that's a pretty damn good one. So score for me for screenplay. I think I'm going to go high on this one. It really bowled me over the end, because I just, I was just like, where's the connection here? And then it's just such a simple one. It's just like, this is this is genius. Well, I think the genius of it is is like in the background. This baby is being born her baby brother. And that's a constant thing, you know? And that he's the connection between these. Yes, these these two? Yeah. You know, it's just pretty cool. Because it's like, it's under your nose. There's a baby being born. There's a baby. Oh, yeah, the baby is that is what like links both tails together. Yeah. So I'm going to go 9.6 I think. And also just the way Vidal is written Captain Vidal. He's written in such an evil way, but it still feels realistic to the time it's just incredible evil character. Yeah, I think I'll go maybe something similar, I'll go a 9.4. Right acting, then the acting is brilliant during the dinner table scene where Captain Vidal is addressing everyone, and then is talking to the doctor. And again, that they know one of the resistance fighters are injured because he found a vial of antibiotics. And the doctor Mercedes share a look. And you immediately know that they're working in some way with the resistance. It's just like that one look with each other, you're like, yep, they were the resistance. I don't even say anything. It's just, it's all on their faces, you just know immediately. It's great. One new acting moment that makes Captain Vidal that much more evil is after the firefight in the forest in the rain, and the captain finds of a survivor nearly dead. And he asks if he can talk and soon sees that he can't, then points the pistol at his head, and the resistant fighter like puts his hand up to try and like move the pistol out the way. But the captain just bats his hand away. And the captain does this like three times before he shoots him in the head. And it's like he's just toying with him before he dies. And it's just yeah, he's a very cruel, it's awful, you know, I'm not sure you can get more evil than this character. And it's like, you get the sense that he has this sense of entitlement. He's almost feels like he's a god man or something. He has a very, like god complex to his character. Well, actually, he even says that when when they're discussing the resistance with him and his friends. And they're discussing how the wars going and stuff. And he says the difference between us and the rebels is they believe we are all equal. And yeah, oh, okay. I think right there. You can sense it. Yeah. He he believes he's better than everybody, you know, to him, they just don't make any sense. And that's why he loves to kill him. Yeah, very interesting. I do like Mercedes and the, the girl that plays her, cuz she's part of the resistance and is like an insider. And I just love even you know, how she she does, you know, her lines, you know, when she meets up with her brother. And she's just pissed off that she has to carry on the chevron for the captain, you know, like, Can I do all this stuff for him? It makes me sick. And you know, and what I love that that, you know, it says sibling and so she has an art, you know, and you get a lot of that free her Southall acting definitely, you know, she's very obedient to staff with and very shy in choir and very caring to a philia and then basically grows out of this shyness to really come from Vidal and stab him in the mouth. Yes to having one of the bits I quite liked about is when affiliate basically says to her, you're, you're part of the resistance, aren't you? And you, you can tell that's just so shocking and out of nowhere, but then how she looks Yeah, you know, receiving that information from this girl. She looks absolutely horrified. Like, she's like, I'm gonna fucking die. You can see that just like so scary. Yeah, yeah. She even says to like, worry. You told anybody. It's like, no, but I want to go with you. And you know, that other shot you were saying? And that was a really good performance, you immediately get the sense when she looks karma that you get the sense through their chemistry, that they're safe, that they can well, that they can trust each other not safe, but they can trust each other. And that's all through their acting, you know, favourite performance we're going for? I'm going with the captain. Yeah. Yes. I just think that actor in my personal opinion, he just steals every scene he's in. And he's in so much of it. And I know he's, you know, I do like the little girl I do like Mercedes, there are other characters that are great. The doctor, there's a lot of great acting in this film. And the mother, she does a great performance as well. So there are so many great performances but him he is so such an asshole. And he's so great at being it he just dominates all he is the giant black cloud in this film. He's the big bad and you can tell why he's the big bad almost immediately, you know? Immediately there is something wrong about this man, you know, there's something in his eyes. There's something about how he talks you know, he's evil to the core. And he demonstrates it's not just the uniform it's definitely in the way he carries himself. Yeah, mind say my favourite character is captain for doll play by surgery Lopez. Also Doug Jones I think would be a very close second he plays the form and plays the pale man. Yeah, apparently Doug Jones could only really see through like the nose holes from the pale man so he had very very limited visibility during those scenes, so he couldn't see through his hands and that would be silly about us. Yeah, even with you know, he's acting that first scene when he's playing the THON, just the way he like moves as well and like that weird shaky does like He's just trying to be nice shake his body up to get least whatever. Because he's basically been asleep for centuries, I would imagine. So score for me for acting. Yeah, I think it's really impressive to be honest through the whole cast, really. And again, I'm not a massive fan of child acting. But this girl is great, I think really, really great. salgo like a 9.3. I think I want you sir. That is a good score. Actually, I think I'll go in knowing just as just a regular nine. Right, let's add up the scores then for Pan's Labyrinth de veau. Pan's Labyrinth gets a whopping 55 points, which isn't in the 10 It certainly is in the top 10 It is joint would you reckon what would you recommend? Fifth? Nope. Higher than that? Really? Okay. Third, yes. Joint third with get out. That is awesome. Yeah, so Pan's Labyrinth definitely wipes the floor with Grimson peak. Yeah, I still have a soft spot. soft spot for Crimson Peak. I do like, like the visuals in that film. And you know, Jessica Chastain is amazing, but I'm not sure many films would be Pan's Labyrinth. I don't think certainly in terms of script. So yeah, a great win there. Next week, as West Side Story, we'll be hitting cinemas, we'll be having a look at I know this very, fairly unknown director, done a weird shark film where the shark was kind of broken most of the time. I'd know. That sounds horrible. Yeah. Steven Spielberg, have you heard of that guy? Steven who? Yeah, he rings a bell. But yeah, we haven't. Steven Spielberg films for next week. He must be one of these upcoming guys. I hope he does well. Right. That's it then for this week. Thank you bars. You have been ghostly as the Encyclopaedia you have been a labyrinth of entertain. That's about one the mind. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye. That's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like to find out more about the podcast or suggest future topics for us to discuss related to upcoming releases. Let us know on Instagram at film versus film podcast and on Twitter at fVf underscore podcast. Remember, please subscribe pod signing off