Film vs Film Podcast

Long Awaited Sequels - Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens vs Incredibles 2

November 20, 2021 Martin Harries Episode 52
Film vs Film Podcast
Long Awaited Sequels - Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens vs Incredibles 2
Show Notes Transcript

This week on the pod as the long awaited sequel, Ghost Busters Afterlife finally hits the big screens we will be focusing on, well, long awaited sequels.

Warning we will be talking SPOILERS.

Martins pick for this week is probably the most anticipated sequel of all time, Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens. On this one we talk about the brilliant face paced action JJ Abrams brings to this film. We also couldn't help but talk about the other sequels that wasted such brilliant potential that this film created especially Fins story. IMDB page     

Boaz's pick for this week is Incredibles 2 the one Pixar film that definitely warranted a sequel mainly because the story simply didn't finish. We talk about the dynamic action scenes and compare and contrast with the first film. We talk about one of the frustrating decisions made in the film. Plus the epic battle between Jack Jack and his arch nemesis, Racoon! IMDB page 


As ever please enjoy.

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Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England, if you enjoy this podcast please leave us a review and subscribe. This week on the film versus film podcast as Ghostbusters afterlife hits the big screens across the world. We'll be having a look at long awaited sequels. As always, our resident demon baby is with us. So if you don't give him a cookie soon, He'll bite your face off. I might bite it off anyway, just just for dessert. Yes, of course. I'm indeed talking about bone sticks. Aliza. I'm incredible. I'm amazing. I'm trying to think of a Star Wars plan as well. I can't I'm yeah, I'm trying to force it. Ah, there we go. That works. Yeah, doing right now. All right, we get straight into it with my pick. Then. I went with Star Wars The Force Awakens. It was kind of a really easy choice for me. When we came up with a subject long awaited sequels for an episode. I think I've never been more excited for a film to come out then. Star Wars Force Awakens, I think. Yeah. Especially when they literally released like a teaser trailer a whole year before the film came out. Yeah, no, I remember the teaser in 2014 that yeah, that lit up everywhere. Just everywhere was talking about. It was like, Can you believe it? It's like, it just is just blown. everybody's mind is like, really? Yeah. Cuz I think I remember the first time I saw the, the teaser and there was there was no, I can't even remember where I saw it. Maybe the TV or the cinema. I can't exactly remember. But even just seeing, you know, in the junkyard planet, and it's like going down a shaft and I'm like, What the hell is this? You know, she's scavenging for something and you know, pulls up sort of masks so you can see her. And then it was like Star Wars and you're like, What the hell is just kind of came out of nowhere. You're like, oh, is this some sort of like Indiana Jones thing and I've never got more chills from watching a trailer. So it's a really easy choice for me. So what happens in Star Wars The Force Awakens? We start off with a group of like stormtroopers coming down onto a desert planet called Jakhu into this village, and they're going to raid this village because Poe Dameron is handed a piece of a map of where Luke Skywalker is. Oscar Isaac plays Poe Dameron. So he kind of puts it into a droid called BB eight, the cutest droid ever since RTV. Two? Yeah, it sold a lot of toys. Yeah. So in that battle, Poe Dameron gets captured, but BB eight gets away. And BVA meets re a scavenger on Jakku, who goes through large, you know, Star Destroyers to scavenge for parts, in exchange for portions of food literally just to survive. She lives in, at at in the desert. And then obviously she comes across PBA PBS kind of says he needs to get back to the rebellion. But then, meanwhile, Finn has a crisis of conscious during the battle, and decides to rescue Poe Dameron in the star destroyer and they kind of crashed down to Jakku Finn and re meet and Finn pretends to be a rebellion via so they escape using the Millennium Falcon. Then they meet Han Solo and chewy, which is awesome. And then they have some scrapes with some giant eyeball monsters with tentacles and escape that and then they obviously eventually get back to the rebels the rebellion, they discover a new base called Starkiller base that literally destroys the Republic. planets within literally one strike. The laser literally splits off into multiple lasers and destroys the planets. Just like that, so they kind of plan an attack basically very similar to a new hope. But we'll get into that, I guess, to basically blow up Starkiller Base through like the second half of the film Ray discovers that she is for sensitive and kind of freaks out a bit as well and uses the Force powers to escape the Starkiller Base and ends up fighting Kylo Ren as well. I really really enjoyed this film I always grey last Jedi I really like as well. I really don't get why people a lot of people don't like that film. I don't get it. Sometimes it feels like watch the different movie. But I think most people are in agreement that rise of Skywalker isn't great at all. But yeah, but certainly this this first one is very good. I would say How about you? I agree. I definitely agree. I don't think it's a question of think this is my favourite one of the sequel trilogy, you know, okay, like without question, and yeah, I quite enjoyed it. I enjoyed it more even upon a rewatch. I'm like, Oh, shit, okay. I kind of forgot. Like how visually quite, you know appealing it is. Right directing, then I like the frantic nature of the opening battle on Jakku certainly does feel very JJ Abrams, to me, a lot of like light flashes and fast cutting. There's always a lot going on. But what feels so fast, satisfying. And nostalgic, is of course, the John Williams score when Kylo Ren ship lands and the score changes to be more sinister, just feels really cool in that moment. But definitely the coolest bit is when Kylo Ren stops pose blaster bowl in midair and the camera like tracks past it with with Poe as he's being captured, you know, his signature JJ lens flares. It just looks really cool, because no one's ever really done that using the force before. And I think that's one of the great strengths of the sequel trilogy is how creative they are with the force, you know, exploring new ways to use the Force. Plus later on when Kylo Ren tries to find the map in Ray's head, they have like a force, mind reading battle. And the sound effects play a huge part not just in the acting with different frequencies of drone noise working with the actors movements, it just works really well in that scene, as well. One of my things that I kind of noticed upon this, this rewatch of this film, and I kind of coined a term for it, again, really, in the visuals of this film, is there's a lot of scenes and I mean, a lot of scenes where they look like, you know, a lot of the shots look like they could be posters, just so much. Like it could be a poster. So I have this this term, basically, it's shot, as you know, a giant is it's meant to be like a giant poster. And it's just one of these things like it kind of clicked in my head where Ray is coming out of her home, which is the asset, and just kind of eating her lunch, you know, on a kind of sand dune with the app behind her and we're like, Damn, that would be a good poster. Just go through the film. And I'm like, Shit, I can pause this bit, you know, whether type fight is a swarming around the Millennium Falcon, I'm like, that would be an awesome poster. I just keep going like that throughout the film. They have a lot of really wide shots of you know, the action or just the characters in centre ground with some stuff going along. And it kind of stays relatively consistent. You know what I mean? Like, there's not so much going on that you're like, Whoa, Jesus, but it kind of genuinely mean it kind of lets the camera take it all in. Yeah, definitely. And you just you just get a kind of feeling. Especially I do like, you could pause these moments in the action scenes or in and just look at it for a bit. That's cool. Yeah. Or in that in the karma bits where the characters are to go. You just pause that, you know, I've got a poster, you know? Yeah, you can just slap that on a poster. I just found that kind of unique and kind of strange because I'm like, I don't recall many films. Big action epic films where I could I can say that kind of stuff about I think that's kind of how they develop the story in Star Wars films. They're always like, right, let's get lots of concept art done and see what we want to see in the Star Wars film. Let's gather loads of concept art and like Yeah, I like that one. I like that one. Let's work all this great art into the story. Yeah, and this this film is no different. Yeah, exactly. Let's find a way to incorporate that specific shot, or shot straight onto the screen. Talking of design. I like a lot of the new design elements of The Force Awakens. I like the new streamline design of the stormtroopers, you know, that looked that looked really nice Kylo Ren looks awesome, especially the design of the mask. The way it looks a bit batters is a nice touch. BBA is a genius idea for the new Droid in my opinion, which JJ designed himself actually not so keen on the new look of the X wings, but that design comes straight from the amazing concept art from Ralph McQuarrie. But I think my favourite new design element is Kylo Ren lightsaber, which is like a crosshill design like it's a mediaeval sword and made to look like Ren designed it himself, you know, as it's all like Sparky, you know, he hasn't like, made it properly from a kyber crystal. Because unlike other lightsabers in the other films and even, you know, Luke's lightsaber in this film, where the beam is smooth, it's like, yeah, it's got edges, and it's, it's very smooth. Yeah, this one is sparking and it kind of looked like, like it's on fire. It's less a lightsaber than more of a fire sword. Yeah. It makes the character more menacing. Yeah, it does is very unique. And I kind of like that in the Star Wars films, you know, when they make a new, you know, series or trilogy or whatever, you know, everybody loves the lightsabers, but to bring in a new design. So you know, you know, they're sort of bored with the old look of them. Like, you know, the double lightsaber blew my fucking mind. Yeah. When Yeah, yeah, Darth Maul did it. Yeah. Like holy shit. They do. And then the second one was so disappointing. I was like, yep. Dooku just has those curved hills that he has. That sucks. But anyway, I think you know, that blew my mind. And then this blew my mind. Okay, that's, that's a really cool design for Yeah. I heard a lot of people were shitting on the design before that. They certainly they are the cross guard. They didn't like it or how it like, the cross guard is cool. And not only that, it makes sense. Why the hell does every lightsaber have a cross guard? You think how many people in the Star Wars series lose their hands to lightsaber? Across God would stop this from happening? Yeah, Paul, Knights have worked this out 1000s of years ago. It's just common sense. Just make a fucking crosshill So because technically Star Wars is in our universe. I always feel like because the you know, the blue texts you see at the start is a long time ago in a galaxy in a galaxy far, far away. They don't say it's a different universe. No, no, no, I completely agree with that. Although like what when they say a long time ago, I you know, it's so ambiguous because you're like, what are humans even around at the time that Star Wars is going on? Is it just the dinosaurs? And then you know, she's going on in like a galaxy finally? I don't know. And of course, Captain Phasma as the chrome Stormtrooper looks really cool, but just not enough. I don't think she was very disappointing because it seemed like she was only invented, you know, to make, you know, some sort of action figure or to me Yeah, to make merchandise. Just like hey, we got a golden Stormtrooper. And you're like, oh, is this golden Stormtrooper? Interesting. We have like a huge backstory. Yeah, Captain Phasma. Oh, yeah, yeah. But if she's barely in it at all, she doesn't really play like a big role in the movie because squinting Christy is great as an actress, you know, amazing in Game of Thrones is a bit of a waste. Yeah, she was just wasted. She's just completely wasted. Yeah. I love how the action scene in Jakku develops where Finn Rey, Finn and Rey are spotted by like two storm troopers and start shooting at them in a few brilliant shots with long lenses creating great depths of action of action with you know, the blast belts and explosions in the village whizzing past the camera as the camera tracks the characters. Yeah, then the action gets bigger with a tie fight as according for an airstrike. Even though it's literally just two people with no weapons but there we go. But there are some amazing explosions in that great great stuff there. Then the chase in the Millennium Falcon is so impressive where Ray starts off with like a very dodgy take off destroying like the archway, which again is from Ralph McQuarrie concept art but then there's this incredible like Loop The Loop the Falcon does with the camera like follows it all the way around and, and twists all the way around so it's not upside down anymore. Just an amazing shot. I think that was in the first teaser shot as well. In the teaser trailer, then the Falcon almost skimming across the sand just adds a new dynamic to the action then the Falcon like flying inside the Star Destroyer is such a good idea. Really great visual idea. really slick stuff. And I just feel like JJ is so good with action scenes bringing a lot of crazy creativity to them, which he showed in you know, the Star Trek film, which he rebooted. Certainly half of why he got the gig for this film. I like the force dream sequence where Ray touches Luke's lightsaber. We seamlessly go from inside a corridor from a star destroyer to outside at night in the rain and get a glimpse of the Knights of Ren and a glimpse of the final battle on Starkiller Base on in the snow. It's kind of reminiscent of when in Empire Luke pretends to fight Vader on Gigaba. And you know, Vader's helmet comes off and reveals that it's leaks head inside. So this kind of feels consistent with the new character stealing the power of the force for the first time like messing with their heads. I quite like that consistency there. Yeah. I would say the whole herd touching the, the lightsaber and having that force. That's my favourite scene in the film, just it's really creative. And it just goes from one bit to the other. And it's I think it's, it's a visually stunning couple of seconds where you're like, oh, wow, it tells this entire story set, like possible, you know, outcomes for the for the end of the story. It's like, oh, maybe she's getting a glimpse into just everything. And you're not really making sense of it, because she can't make sense of any of this. And I thought it was just done so so incredibly well, no, I, you know, I don't want to talk really about this. But it is disappointing that the Knights of Ren sort of in the last one, like they look so cool in this vision, and they're just shit in the last film. Again, they're there to just pose and look intimidating, and sell action figures, but they do nothing cool. I'm sorry, I don't even have any lines. I don't even have any lines. They are pointless. I really wish those guys the because I even thought they were the royal guards from the second one. Were the Knights of Ren. They were cool. They were awesome. Why didn't they? Yeah, I think Knights of Ren could have had that. Actually, I'd say they could have had that action scene and survived. And I don't know. But you know, I'm just saying they say yeah, yeah, definitely. I totally agree. Because I watched a lot of the films for the podcast and subtitles. I never noticed that Obi Wan Kenobi from the first Ewan McGregor says the last line in that this is your first steps or something, you know, that's him. At the end. I was like, Oh, cool. I never noticed that. And Yodas in there as well. That was some nice touches. The moment in the snow on Starkiller Base when Luke's lightsaber is in the snow and Kylo Ren is trying to pull it out using the force but then flies right past him and lands right into raise hand. I was like, hell yeah. A great moment that gave me huge chills. The choreography of the fight is on purpose, less complex and more emotional, more aggressive blows and trying to really be intricate, like in the prequels. You know, I love the moment when Ray feels the force and the breathing is more accurately and the score is stronger. And the lightsaber sound effects are quieter in that moment. Just great framing on Daisy's face and she opens her eyes. She's like, I got this and is now more of the aggressor. Just a really cool storytelling moment and great development for character and in action, you know? Yeah, definitely. What do you reckon about like the new like fighting style? It's very more it's more emotional and just more aggressive. I think, obviously, a lot slower and, you know, in the pre courses a lot faster. Yeah, I would say like, thematically it's a it's a good fight. It's kind of cool. Yeah. Even with him and Finn. I can't really say much of that of the choreography. Yeah, it is. It is cool. It's fast paced, and it's very aggressive. It feels like it's over too quickly. I would I will say that. Yeah, it just feels like it's over too quickly. It just feels like an epic setup for a fight. And then some really cool poses and some really cool shots. Where again, I'm saying where they lock blade you like, oh, you know, that is that would be a cool post. That would be a really cool poster. Her coming after him. That's an awesome poster. Oh, just a great visual of just having a lightsaber fight in the snow at night. Yeah, the red and blue reflecting in the snow. Just yeah, it looks amazing. I mean, the lighting looks great. And it's again, not something we've seen before. But I will say like, the choreography is a little disappointing. Even on rewatches you like it's over too quickly. It's just over too quickly. I never really felt that to be honest. Well, I don't know. It's just kind of what I feel. It's like, yeah, I prefer a lot of the other ones not even just in the prequels, but even in the originals with the exception of you know, the first one, which wasn't that good. But that was because they were just trying out. You know, between Darth Vader and Oh, yeah. But even all the other ones with Luke and Vader, you're like, holy shit. There's so much going on. There's so much choreography. And there's less so in this Yes, just it's very quick. Probably what a real lightsaber fight would be like what a real sword fight would be. It's not real sword fights if you've ever like heard about them or seen them or done some history about them. Like they're not that extravagant. They're over pretty quick because, you know, a sword can like cut Yeah, arm off. So you know, because that's why like the sword fights in the prequels. They feel very overcorrect. I do think they are overly choreographed. Yeah, because there's a moment in rent rent Revenge of the safe when like Obi Wan Anakin literally waving both lightsabers about and they don't even hit each other. Yeah, competition. Here's the cool thing. You can do the coolest swirl. Yeah, yeah. It's like you lose. And I can No, my favourite shot actually is during the battle around Maskin Arthur's castle. There's an incredible one, which starts on Finn shooting a stormtrooper. Then pose swoops in with his black and orange X Wing taking out some Thai fighters in the distance and the stormtroopers in the in the foreground and the camera tracks around following pose X Wing the whole time then thing comes back into the foreground shooting a stormtrooper then ends with Poe flying right over Finn just a really well choreographed shot in covering like ground action and era aerial action. For me the best action shot in the sequel trilogy. Just really great stuff from JJ Abrams. So I would say the whole mass Cananda fight, in my opinion is like my favourite fight in the film, you know, it's just so epic, unlike the X Wing fight to take down Starkiller Base you're completely right It's incorporating it all here's some ground combat with our main cast and the and stormtroopers you know, hand doing his stuff to be doing his stuff in doing his stuff. They're saved by the you know, Air Cavalry basically just taken out Thai fighters taken out people and it's, it's really cool. It's really, really cool. Yeah, I think that was my favourite fight scene score for directing bowels, or you go, I'm going to go and 8.5 Yeah, I think this film is really impressively directed. To be honest. I think JJ Abrams, does this type of action, this sci fi type of action. So Well, definitely the best action scenes in the sequel trilogy, all in this film for me, and even with the direction of the emotional stuff, really well designed with the sets and the lighting in the scene where Han Solo dies. That's, that's really well put together in the directional sense as well. So yeah, I think I'll be a bit more generous, I think I'll go with an 8.7. I also wish a lot of like a like a lot of the action scenes, you know, with the Millennium Falcon, with the one with Hannah there quite a lot, you know, Han Han Solo, fighting those gangs and the mass Cananda Cantina. And, you know, in the Starkiller, base, and Ray versus Kiley, I kind of wish they were a little longer, if that makes sense. So that that's my only sort of thing. I think, are they going so good. I just wish just pad him out just a bit. And then I would have been okay, more satisfied. But as they are, they're pretty good. I just wished them fight scenes were a little longer. I think that's the thing with JJ Abrams action films is the fact that the pacing is always really high. It is really quick to literally go from scene to scene so often with JJ films. Yeah, I think that's that's one of my problems. I think with the directing where I'm just like, I just wanted, I just want to be in this moment, just a little more. Can't you do that and it's, you like it, this is good. Just give me a little more of this, keep it on for then it's like, show some cool stuff and then moves to the next scene. And that's just a little annoying, but it's still good, still good. So screenplay, then I quite like the idea of fins character played by John Viega. In this film, a Storm Trooper having a crisis of conscience and decides to help the resistance. But not only that, he decides to lie to re pretending to be a resistance fighter. But when they get to Mars Connor, he kind of freaks out a bit and admits to Ray that he was a stormtrooper and says All we can do is run against the first order. But what brings him back is the fact that he gets caught up into the fight plus his friendship with Ray seeing her being captured by Carlo gives him something to fight for. Whereas before he was running, and and surviving, you know, it's a shame in the next films, you just got the sense that the writers really didn't know what to do within, especially in Rise of Skywalker. It's just a shame for John Vega. Really, he just has, he has a great beginning arc, but then just tails off to nothing. Yeah, it's just a real shame. Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. I do think it's very unfortunate for his character. If I was kind of doing this, I would have either made him the main character. It's not necessarily like I you know, I don't like Ray and Daisy Ridley or whatever the house you can. But I, I really like the idea of a stormtrooper becoming the good guy. And it's like one you've never seen before. And it kind of was something that was very like thematically like story wise, just incredibly impressive. Oh, my God, they have the balls to do that. And like a lot of the people that were saying, like, you know, this film is, is a clone of A New Hope with it, which in many ways it is. That is the one thing that I think really stands out is you have a good guy who was a stormtrooper that isn't been nowhere in the Star Wars film. And I just feel like, because he's this secondary character here. You don't think about it as much and then he gets more and more sidelined through the rest of it. Yeah, it's such a shame. I think it's kind of an unfortunate thing really about this film. I think he should have been more of the focus because then he would be the focus in the next couple of films, I just feel like it's it's the only truly genuinely unique concept in this movie. You know, you've had no heroes on on desolate planets that didn't know they were special. You know, in Luke Skywalker you've had Han and Leia in the other ones you've had shoot you've had everything else you've had a kind of Emperor like figure in Snoke and a Darth Vader like figure in, in Kylo Ren but you haven't had somebody who's been on the bad side, you know, been a stormtrooper turned to the good side. So incredibly unique idea. And I just feel it kind of just kind of gets forgotten about which is a shame I kind of would have made the main star or like, you know, if you want to make Ray, the main star sort of incorporated into it my opinion, I think he probably should have died in Rise of Skywalker, just to make it more more of an emotional punch for Ray's character. I always kind of go through this in my head, like, what could they have done to make rise of Skywalker better? So it feels better in my head? Yeah. But but then you kind of go fall into it? Well, they're killing the black guy trope to the plot. I think something could have been done with the fact that he is a stormtrooper. I just think it's such a big idea that, you know, I don't think it gets fully explored. I would even say even in this film, I think they hinted it that it could be fully explored, but they don't pay off on it. I think maybe if he did something like in my opinion, like he's a reformed Stormtrooper, what if he convinces some of the other stormtroopers they don't actually have to follow this nonsense, like he's made made out of it. I mean, that could be using the concept of his character to further the plot. It's like, this is what he could bring to the table actually convince stormtroopers not to follow the dark side. Because I mean, nobody else can convince a stormtrooper not to do that. You know, they're kind of mindless drones. And Ray has a similar like crisis of conscience after the false dream sequence. And when Mars asked her to take up the lightsaber and become a Jedi, it kind of freaks her out a bit. And he's like, she's like, nope, screw this. I'm off and runs away. But I think it's kind of a similar situation within the fight gets too big from there for them to run away from and these characters at the start have, like, have nothing, but now they've befriended too many people to care about especially BPH, of course, because it's interesting, obviously, with with Luke Skywalker in the original trilogy, he still has, well, his adopted family, he has something to lose, and obviously they get burned to life. Yeah, so it's definitely a little bit of a different spin there. In Star Wars, you've always got to have scenes where quivering officers have to speak to Darth Vader saying that he fucked up and get forced choked to death. And I like the different spin on it with Kylo Ren, where he just gets like really angry and slashes the control panel with his lightsaber and then like drags the officer with with the Force to his hand that was that was kind of cool. I thought it was funny where they do a basic a copy of that like a reprise you know, I think it's always great to do that. Yeah, dramatically. You know, you you do something serious and you can put a spin on it the second time and I love the spin they put on there where Ray is escaped and he just starts going to town on the on the you know, torture chair and on the whole room. And some stormtroopers are walking by and they just see all these sparks and all this metal fly out the door. They're just like, let's turn the fuck around. Like you know, he has no I remember that got a big laugh in the cinema. I was incredible. That was that was a very genuinely funny thing. I think one moment where the film gave me major chills as when Kylo Ren is talking to something and says, Forgive me, I feel it again. The pull to the light Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again the power of the darkness and I will let nothing stand in our way. Show me grandpa and I will finish what you started. Then you see Darth Vader's helmet all burn up chills. Yeah, that was pretty cool. What's interesting about that little monologue is is the line right at the start forgive me I feel that again, the pull to the light. It's just interesting that this character is very conflicted. Still, in the short time we've known him. He's not a fully fledged Dark Lord yet the pull to the dark and light side is always there for for someone that's for sensitive and it's not always the pull of the dark side all the time. And we've never really seen that before, where the light side is tempting to Frou Gill, I suppose in this case, and I think the only time we that's happened before was when literally Darth Vader throws palps down the big hole in Jedi. So I thought that was a really interesting thing that they explore in this film. And then last Jedi as well. Yeah, just his inner conflict and turmoil in in being a bad guy especially because you know when he's introduced He's, he's evil, you know, massacres a village. You like there is no redemption for this. But the idea that Han and Leia are trying to get him to come back and even he's feeling like he should. It's pretty good. And I do like the scene with him and Han Solo Han Solo's unfortunate demise. At the end of, you know, an age an error for the character. And yeah, I like that, where he's trying to, he doesn't shoot his son or anything like that, you know, the evil kind of run, but tries to talk him out of it tries to get him to come to the light. Yeah. And you think he's almost succeeding? And like Ben is, you know, Kylo is, like, you know, please help me and, yeah, like anything, and then he stabs him, but I can't I do. Like the fact that it's, you know, Han Solo son and all this and, you know, it plays on the trope of, of Darth Vader, and, and I thought that was great. And the character of Kylo Ren is quite interesting, but I do wish this is just a small group. I forgot how early they reveal that he is Ben Solo. They do very early on. I found it was quite early. It was quite, it was quite early of like, where they discover Han Solo's on the Millennium Falcon. And then Snoke just pretty much says to him, yeah, that's, you know, your father, your father's involved in this shit. Okay. That's really early on to say that. He's, you know, Han Solo son, I wouldn't bother me too much. I you know, I know, in retrospect, it's kind of obvious. Almost everybody could work it out. In my personal opinion, watching this again, I'm like, I cannot believe they revealed that so early, I would have pushed that shit, like, way back. But I think what was the the the killer line is the emotional one is not that reveal is when shouts Ben, you don't know what his name is, you know, you know, son, but at that point, you didn't know what he's called. And the fact that he's called Ben, you know, after Ben Kenobi in new Oh, that's the gut punch bit, which is really a great reveal there in the writing. I think the one bittersweet thing I have in this film, and certainly there are two things that people have major issues with in this film. It's pretty much like the same story structure as Star Wars A New Hope. For me it kind of feels like more of a remix of A New Hope is not beat for beat, like a new hope. They kind of change things around and they have kind of the same similar story beats but a different times and kind of some of them are squish together. And different characters have different things to do. But the other one is the fact that Luke Skywalker isn't in this film. Really, until the end, it does feel a little disappointing. But again, I did get the feels but not really a strong with the ones with hand showing up and hand dying and re holding the lightsaber. You know, it was still a cool moment. But how do you in reintroduce like the greatest hero in cinema history? In my opinion, I think the decision not to have any dialogue as well was a wise one just to leave you hanging about what Luke's true emotions are right now was it was a great cliffhanger. I would say that but because certainly when I watched it for the first time in the in the first film, I was like, well, where's come on Luke? Can we have Luke Now please? And know that? Oh, I think it's a great teaser to get you to watch the next one where everybody's searching for loot. You want to see loot, everybody's talking about loot. Give me god damn Luke. And then when you kind of lose hope of ever seeing Luke, they finally get to Luke. And you just see him and then it's and you're like, god dammit, dammit. Got a boy. Say Luke? Waiting? Oh, you know, two hours? Yeah. I would say I do actually kind of understand the criticisms. It's quite similar. My thing as well is, and to this day, I still don't really get it. Like, if it's going to be similar. Why? Why are there changes you get? I'm going to try and explain. Yeah. So this isn't the Empire? Yeah. This is not the Sith. No, this is the the Knights of Ren and it's the first order. My thing is why, like, why change their names? Like just why bother? I mean, it's like, as far as I'm concerned, the first order looks exactly like the Empire. They use Stormtroopers. They look very similar. They've got similar goals. They've got basically the same ideology, the Sith as well, you know, they're not here but you've got the knight so you've got you know, the Knights of Ren and supremely that's No, I agree. It does make things a bit confusing. Snoke is like the Emperor. And you know, the Knights of Ren and Kylo I just like the Sith, it's like, why make a different organisation that does the same thing. Yeah. And then you know, instead of the Death Star or Death Star to the Death Star 3.0. And when you've got Starkiller Base, which again, is essentially the same weapon, so my thing is not so much that it's it's kind of the same it's similar film, which it kind of is, and as you were saying, there are differences now, but it's like, why do you need to introduce a new faction that is the same as the previous faction? it's to me it's a bit weird. I think they could have just said, the Empire, they could have just just turned to the Empire and just turned at the Sith. Yeah, I think what they are going for, because obviously at the end of Return of the Jedi, they completely well, they pretty much defeated the Empire, obviously. Yeah, yeah, a segment of the Empire left, but they kind of weave those remnants they kind of rebuilt to something completely new. I think that was what they were going for. They didn't want to be known as the previous Empire. They want to be like, something bigger and more dangerous. Yeah, this is just the one thing that irks me, it's like, if it's going to be different, yeah. Then make it different. You know, that's my thing. If it's a new faction, that's meant to be bigger and badder. Don't make them look anything like the old faction. Yeah, that's my thing. I think, in my way, either. They should have kept it as the Empire, because then it makes sense to have stormtroopers in my head. And in everybody else's head who's you know, younger and older generations want to confuse them? Because, you know, nowadays we talk about, oh, Stormtrooper, which storm trooper the Empire of the First Order? It's like, dude, they look almost exactly the fucking same, you know? Or with the last one, they, they did a stupid thing of introducing another goddamn faction, they evolved into the final order. It's so silly, the Sith troopers, I'm like, Yeah, that makes no sense. Yeah, it just, it just got a bit ridiculous. But I'm just saying, like, if you can make them similar, if you're gonna make almost everything similar, they're using the same weapons, they're using the same tactics, they have the same ideology. And they look the same, just call them the same thing. And if you want to introduce a new, bigger, bad, that you want to make them different than visually and ideologic, just make them different. So that's always irked me about the sequel trilogy, it can't decide what it wants to be, it can't decide if it wants to introduce something new, or to cater to something old. And now you've got this halfway house where it's a new threat, but in old clothes, and to me, that never sat well with me. I think that's why the night the whole Knights of Ren thing was so disappointing, because it felt like Kylo was like creating like his own dark religion. Yes, Seth, Seth organisation or whatever, but it just comes to nothing. And it's just like, what? Because of this problem, where it's, I said, it's it's new in old clothing. Then eventually you had this problem with the last film. People are like, well either introduce something new or bring back the old they brought back the old but then it can it can add more confusing, because you're like, Why the hell bring it back? The old if you've got this new thing that looks exactly like the old? Yeah, why the hell Palpatine? isn't rising skywalk? I've no idea. But they still could have made that work as well. But they really didn't. I'm just like, Lightning doesn't work on lightsabers. Yeah, just learn. This has happened before. I think that's my problem with the sequel trilogy as a whole. And I do think this one is the best. And there were, you know, bigger problems much later on how they should end it. But I think it's just one of these issues of, they've just got too much the same setup too much is the same from the originals. And if it's going to be the same, just make it the same. And I just think they wrote themselves into a corner of should we cater to nostalgia, or should we show people something new, and they didn't know really what to do, and it kind of just turned into a bit of a garbled mess. So I do like this as a setup on the film. I do think yeah, one of my major issues, which I still say to the state is either they should have, you know, I'm saying it's a definitely, but they should have kept it the same or really introduced something new. But if I've never watched Star Wars before, you know, this is this is this is pretty good. There are some cool lines in this film. This is the ship that made the Kessel run in 14 parsecs 12 from him, he almost killed me six times chewy Paul's fin towards him by the throat. Which is fine. That was funny. I like when BB eight does this thumbs up? Whether or not in a wink that he's in the resistance and he puts a slight thumbs up and PVA lights up his light to be like, yeah, that was cool. I love the puppetry of BBA. Just generally in this film. Just really a great concept. For a character I really like whenever they use puppets and like real things, especially mascot and come out as Cantina. We like all of these things look real. All these creatures all these little ones all these like well, they are real. Have you got a favourite line? Then? You go first and I'll try and remember something. I think mine is simply chewy were home when when we first see Han Solo and Chewbacca when they get back to the Falcon that's just ingrained nostalgic line. I love all of these lines. I especially like and then when he said Yes, amazing. He has the best light. I need a weapon. You have one? Yeah, that was cool. Trade Are you know, that's always a great one. I will remove these restraints and leave the cell door open and I'll drop my weapon. So yeah, that was funny. From Daniel Craig. Yeah. James Bond in space. And whatever you do, don't stare at one. Anyway. Yeah. If you live long enough, you see the same eyes and different people? I think it's Yeah, I think it's a good one. But also it's kind of it's kind of strange, because that's essentially what this film is. It is kind of a refresher kind of a tale for a new generation. On the old genome anime, it is a Yeah, it's kind of like this, this continuation slash sort of soft retelling of the old I think that line perfectly encapsulates, so what score you gain with for screenplay? I'm not going to go that high, because I do find some problems in it. Yeah, I think there was some miss potential in a lot of things. But genuinely good, genuinely quite entertaining. So I'm gonna go like with a, like, with a seven, like a straight seven, a straight seven. Okay, you know, I don't have a huge problem with the fact that they kind of riff on a new hope. For me that is kind of a nice way of like introducing new audiences to Star Wars, and yet keeping kind of some great nostalgia for the for audiences, obviously, no Star Wars, which there are a lot of them, so it doesn't bother me too much. I do feel like it's a missed opportunity to not have Luke more in this film that is slightly frustrating. So I will go, I can't 8.1 All right, I'm not going to be that harsh. I think it's still pretty good writing. I just really liked the way they use Han Solo in there. So I think it's really great story for him. So acting then I feel like the acting from Daisy Ridley is a bit cringe in the opening exchanges with DBA. When she says, Don't follow me, town is that way. And I just, it just sounds not very convincing. But it might be the material she was working with. It's like an early 2000s video game. It just sounds like really strange. Yeah, I did feel that the first time we watched it. And even now I'm like, Yeah, still not not great out there. But other than that, Daisy Ridley is great in the film, just that initial scene isn't amazing. I would say she only kind of really gets into our own quite later. I would even say this actually, with the script. If I was going back, like the humour, the humour for me didn't land at the start of the movie. It just felt like they were trying to be funny. It at a certain point it became it becomes funny. And then it just feels like there are attempts at humour. And then even with some of the acting, but especially I would say just Daisy Ridley, at the start. I'm really not buying it. Like I think basically from as Canada's canteen. I think she's got a lot of emotion to deal with. She's amazing. Yeah, when she's got some emotion to deal with, then I think she does really well, if she's got to be conflicted, or sad, or angry. If she's got to do like, I think she gets, you know, the second half. That's where she excelled. But I think when she's just got to do like, basic dialogue, like small talk, to just do little things. It just seems weird. It just doesn't seem right. Because I think weirdly, her best performance is in Rise of Skywalker for me. It's just a shame, her best performances in the worst film, but yeah, and I've loved the so acting from Harrison Ford. When he says in the Falcon, it's true. The force the Jedi, all of it. It's all true. You can just see all the pride is all on his face. He gave me chills in that moment. Again, a lot of chills in this in this podcast. Turn on your lightsaber, then warm yourself up. The amazing classic score helps a lot to be honest, you know and in the first Star Wars film Han Solo was pretty much in the same spot when he was denying it or you know, denying it was true to Obi Wan Kenobi it's just a really nice callback, but he's completely the opposite. Now. You know, it's the Jedi is all real. And the moment when Han Solo and lair meet again, it is a really touching moment that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Great grey moment is funny as well with sci fi Freo interrupts that interrupts them even and says goodness Han Solo. It is I see Threepio which made me laugh out loud and Harrison Ford is brilliant. Like his face is amazing. Like Harrison Ford does grumpy and pissed off like no one else is so funny. Yeah, we kind of touched on it a little bit. Han Solo's death scene is brilliantly acted from Harrison Ford and especially from Adam driver. He plays Kylo Ren when he says the Supreme Leader is wise. He sounds like a spoiled child being accused of lying and then when he says I'm being torn apart. I want to be be free of this pain but I don't know if I have the strength to do it will you help me emotion starts to come into his voice but not too much because he's trying to hide that he's going to kill and but the emotion is still genuine a little bit because his father at the end of the day so for me Adam Driver pitches the performance perfectly. But the way Harrison Ford light touches Adams face as he falls to his death. It's just as such a great emotional detail that always gets to me. I didn't cry. I nearly did the first time but I also I kind of wish chewy went on more of an emotional rampage. You know, not just shooting a few stormtroopers I wish he threw one in like rip some arms off you know get stuff you know, don't just kill if you eat them go nuts on some this is your best friend you've been with pretty much your whole life. Rip that guts out and strangle another Stormtrooper with it. I just felt that was a little bit dissatisfying. Yeah, I'm trying to think what film I saw recently where a hero died and the other guy just went fucking ham on everybody. But I love those scenes when shit like that. Yeah, but yeah, it wasn't it wasn't really like your favourite performance. I think I'm gonna go Harrison Ford. Yeah, I'm gonna go with him as well. Yeah, I really like John Baga as well as Finn, he he really goes for it in some of the scenes. Yeah, he works really well with Harrison Ford. The comedy works really well between those two when they're on Starkiller Base. Yeah, we're doing this. And like points. Yeah, like doing the head thing is like, what are you doing? No, Ray is there. Yeah, I like where, you know, he discovers he's full of shit. And he's like, you said you knew how to work this thing. I lied. I'm only caring about Joe's billions of people are counting on us. He's like, well use the Force. That's not how the force works. Score Bowers. What you're gonna go for for acting? Yeah. You know. Yeah, the acting was good. And with Daisy Ridley, it's just, it's a shame. I think she's, she's a good actress. And there are parts of this, which are, you know, really good for her. I would say like when she meets Kylo Ren. She's very conflicted and mascotas container. At the end when she like discovers her true self and all that stuff. That stuff is great. I just don't think she's up to par at the beginning. And it's just it's so distracting. It's such a shame. But I do feel like the material doesn't help as well. I would add. Yeah, I suppose the material doesn't help. Yeah, but I don't know. Because it's like in the earlier parts, even when she's talking with John Boyega. I just feel like he can do small talk better than she can. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but I guess I've get the feeling like because she was a complete unknown going into this. I don't think she had the confidence or the star cloud, if you will to say Hang on, JJ. I don't think this is working. I don't think this sounds very good. I just feel like with someone else, they probably would have said that. Yeah, they might they might have said something like listen, I don't think that's the best take I can do can I Baba Baba, can I do it? A couple more days. Something different? Yeah. Can I see a different way? Can I do it this way? Yeah, okay, I'll give her that. So, but yeah, when when she does really good when she like mind. interrogates ran that was really good. So she does some really good stuff. And Harrison Ford is brilliant. John Boyega it's really good. Yeah, I'm gonna give this maybe an eight point. I fucking 8.3 Yeah, I think that's fair. I think I'll go the same actually. Daisy really is a really good actress. But I think she's just really just trying getting into the role in this first film. But yeah, Harrison Ford is his like he never left. Yeah, the shoes of of Han Solo. Exactly. He's just falling into like a nice comfy slipper, you know? Yeah, like Yeah, it's still damn comfy. Right? Let's add up the scores then for Star Wars The Force Awakens. Not a great score. Dammit, bro. As I've liked the Star Wars The Force Awakens gets 48.97 You're never gonna let me live that down. I keep keep bringing it up for years to come. Right, Mr. encyclopaedia man. What is your film for long awaited sequels? Mine is The Incredibles two nice. Yeah. What was this about 14 year gap? I think. Yeah. Yeah. It was like that. So why did you pick Incredibles two was there's a few reasons one of the most obvious being you have done the Incredibles during us know who picked the Incredibles. The idea is that me was you. That was you? Yeah, I picked that. It was me. Yeah, I remember I remember. So anyway, you pick the Incredibles for superhero team for films, which was a great choice, by the way, is a really good film. And it just kind of reminded me and I remember Oh shit. You know, I watched a few years ago I went to the cinema to watch Incredibles And that was a hell of a shock that they were making an Incredibles two, you know, and that they had made one and it was just like what in the hell is the thing it's like, in a lot of long awaited sequels. Most of these aren't like films that I grew up with. Do you know what I mean? Like if you did like a sequel to like Tron, Tron Legacy, I watched Tron Legacy I'd never watched Tron. This is way before my time. And there are many other films that are like that way. Like, you know, when I was a kid with Star Wars, The Phantom Menace. I hadn't watched the originals, like I was way too young. So again, you know, I've watched the originals after I'd watch the prequels, you know, after I'd basically been waiting to watch all the prequels. Then I watched the the original. I'd seen the originals, like many, many times because my dad had them on VHS tape, not just the originals, the theatrical cuts. My dad has on VHS tapes, VHS tape, he still has them probably shouldn't be saying this right now, because they were probably worth millions. Because you literally can't get the original cuts on DVD. Either fans are going to dad's house, or George Lucas is gonna blow up your dad's house. He's somehow you don't want anybody to watch his original vision of the movies. Yeah, but anyway, so that's crazy. That is really crazy. So I mean, this is one of the few ones where, you know, I watched The Incredibles as a teenager, you know, I was, you know, had all my faculties and basically, kind of a, you know, a demon baby child. And you know, they come up with another one. Yeah, yeah. And they come up with another one, like, so many years later, you're like Jesus Christ. That's crazy. And also, it's quite interesting, because it's one of the few like long awaited sequels where it there isn't a time jump. There isn't a, you know, this is happening several years later, or even most sequels that, you know, they're they're only like, you know, they're released like the next year. There's always a time of a few days, a few weeks. I what I found particularly interesting, when watching this film in the cinema, is there's a 14 year gap, you know, in our time between this this, the previous film and this film, but there is no gap at all. In the chronology of the film. I find that crazy. I've never seen many sequels that do that. Well, the next one, no hits the ground running. And this is even most sequels that, you know, they shot two years after the fact. And there's always some gap where you can do that with animation to be not so much live action, you can do that. Because you know, people donate. Yeah, exactly. All of the character models don't age. It's much harder to do it in real life where you know, several years have passed, and you've got to pretend it's that same second, but they did have to recast the act. He did voice dash though, because I guess his voice was too deep. 14 years later, yeah. No, I'd imagine his balls have dropped decades ago. So what happens in Incredibles two? So as I said before, The Incredibles two begins, like just straight after the end of the Incredibles one where they're attacked by the underminer, the underminer, the underminer. So yeah, so the underminer attacks the city, the family put on their masks, like, you know, for the first time, it's that bit at the end of the first film, and they they fight the underminer. So you carry on straight basically into their fight within the fight, even though it's set up epically, like the end of the first one does not go well. You know, they're first, you know, dealing with a superhero since syndrome as a family. And it leads to mass destruction of the city. And the underminer gets away and nobody is happy, because you know, heroes are still illegal. At this point. The first film didn't change anything. They're given, like, not very much money, like the government has shut down any programme to help, you know, retired Supers. So they have about just enough funds for two weeks in a motel. But they were seen by this man called Winston diva diva who sees them like, you know, save the day and he wants to film them saving the day while the film one of them which ends up being Alaska girl, he wants to get her to save the day on camera. And she's picked because Mr. Incredible is considered like too brutish, like, he ends up destroying most of the things he tries to protect. So he's not the best candidate to convince people that make superheroes legal, which I found just kind of is kind of an interesting choice to take this because the first film was very much from Mr. Incredibles point of view, him wanting to relive the glory days and be a superhero again, and it was his villain from his you know, past. And then it's interesting for this film, it's, you know, it's Elastigirl who's called up to action. It's her film basically, it's a villain mainly from her point of view her story. So anyway, she she comes back on the scene and is presented with a new villain called Screen slaver who can hypnotise people through TV screens. She does a good job. Jobs saving the world from screen slaver becomes incredibly popular and famous. The government is going to change its law on superheroes. At the same time, Bob is trying to deal with the kids and Jack Jack and everything like and he's finding it very difficult to, to cope doesn't have enough cookies. He doesn't have enough cookies. So anyway, cut long story short, it turns out the screensaver is Winston diva test hits his sister and she wants superheroes illegal, like he wants them legalised and is doing this to build publicity. She hates superheroes, she doesn't want them legalised. She wants to completely ruin their reputation, so they never legalised. And you know, there's a huge team up at the end and they beat her and all is good. So what do you make of this one better than the first one? Or do you prefer the first one? I think I prefer the first film, but I still really liked this film. I think I agree with you. I think I prefer the first film. There's a lot of great stuff in this in this sequel. But there's one thing that really, really bothers me, which I really really didn't like, we'll get onto that in screenplay. You probably can guess what it is, but I eat really just like, so disappointing. Yeah, on the whole this is a really good film despite that. So directing then for Incredibles two the opening action scene is very cool as this film is like 14 years after the first one, you can definitely see more details in the animation compared to the first film like the lighting and animation makes the characters look really nice and slick with the undermine his vehicle like coming up and the details of the smoke in the rubble look really impressive. Also with the advancements of pixels technology you already get a sense that they are expanding like the superheroes abilities like violet fires out like to like shield blasts that look really cool and elastic girls abilities felt so much more fluid it was like she was like spider man at times when she's like swinging around the city with stretchy arms. Yeah, just a really impressive opening action sequence for me and and basically incorporate it into that is a past the parcel sort of thing going on with the baby. Have you have the baby I'll help out. Didn't know you guys have the baby. I love that was great. I think one of my favourite action scenes though, is I love the action scene where Alaska girl chases the new monorail train on her new bike really satisfying to watch. They're similar to the dasheen in the first film, but feels just as dynamic for me because we're in a city environment, not a jungle where Dash was just whizzing past fairly similar environments. And it's all a blur, whereas with this in the city, you're in the city. So you have cars and buildings with passive camera, which is kind of sticks out more in the chase creating more danger. You know, they use the environment of the city more to create the dynamic action and not always a blur, she has to really reorientate herself and everything she's doing. Like, I love that bit where she goes on one of the cranes and then spins the back end of the bike to lower yourself higher over a building. You're like, whoa, Jesus bike splits into two, there's so yeah, there's so much going on. And it's as you said, the bike can disconnect so she can go around things and, and kind of, you know, unusual way. Also she makes mistakes throughout the chase is not seamless at times, she gets clipped by a car, the bottom half of the bike falls down the side of the train and hits the window. And it's like she's not always in full control at times, which adds more jeopardy to the to the scene and kind of as I said before in that episode and and comic book team films that kind of gives the character and the scene more grounded feel even though it is animation. Yeah, it just gives it a more cinematic feel. Not just any other cartoon. You know, I really enjoyed the action scene with Frozone in the house when he's trying to protect protect the kids. You know, the the use of void with the portals was always fun to see in the movie where she tricks dash at one point just, you know, going through the same, the same room. You know, the hypnotise bad guys to actually work together really well and make it really difficult for Frozone and the kids and when Frozone gets hypnotised, it's fairly unexpected, because you think he's, he's got to get out of it somehow, surely, but he doesn't. So it's kind of a great, unexpected moment. I really liked that scene with where all the, you know, heroes, you know, are mind controlled and tried to take them and just as you said, frozen is trying to stop them and checks throughout the film. She's awesome and her power looks incredible. I would say I was a little disappointed. It's kind of like when we say this about Well, we said this about the first Incredibles how No, like the last action scene wasn't like the standout. And then I thought what was kind of disappointing even in this film is you have all of these mind controlled heroes and when they assault the house, oh my god, it's a it's a visual spectacle. But then they take them out really easy at the end. It just felt like, yeah, you're like, Okay, you know, epic, like, just take them all out. It just it just, I don't know, it wasn't as cool for me as the house. We're not saying it wasn't cool. Well, they didn't know. At that time that the goggles were, were the thing that was yeah, no, no, I know that. I know that. I just, I'm just saying like, if you compare them, I'm not saying like some sort of matter. Yeah, whatever. But if you just compare the scenes, I think it's just it's a cooler scene. It's a cooler action scene at the house than it is, you know, still cool. But then when they fight them on the ship, it's just over too quickly. It's just it's not as much going on. In my opinion. I don't agree to be honest, you don't agree the one in the house is over very quickly. Whereas the one on the boat, there's lots of different things going on. Yeah, you have the segment's where the superheroes are hypnotised with the glasses. But then there's another sequence where the heroes are without the glasses and help the The Incredibles family take down. Evelyn Weaver in the in the jet. So there's lots of different things going on. And it keeps a nice pace to it with the action lot of varied action in the last bit. So I think this sequel definitely improves on the fact that you have for me the best action scenes at the end of this film. Compared to the first film, it's you know, it's the dash scene, which we talked about last time. I do think the characters do play off of each other a lot better than the first film in X and C Yeah, using their powers to compliment each other especially actually, we were just talking about the the void gal, but whenever she's in there, I mean, she just makes the action just much more incredible because she couldn't. Whatever they do, she can like, redirect things in place. She was amazing. Did you ever play the game Portal? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah, it's essentially that she's thinking with portals. Yeah, that was cool. I love that game. But the film utilises violence powers a bit more compared to the first film I always felt in the first film Violet was the one that was kind of sidelined a bit certainly. abilities. I think with this film, they kind of they bring her to the fore a bit more. The fight she has with Void was really creative and fun to watch with the balls. You know, Violet gets more to do with their invisibility where she sneaks around the boat of it. But obviously by focusing on violet more and Jack Jack as well, dash gets very little to do action wise in this film. Yeah, true. Which I think is fair because he gets a incredible action scene in the first one so I'm not too bothered by I think you've kind of right it's like he was already I mentioned it before. You know, he's the most black he was the MVP the most valuable player in the first maybe it's right that they tone him down a bit because let everybody else shy here. And you know, there's only so much you can do with you know, making running running around really fast. You know, I mean, Jack Jack Jack Jack was awesome. I like Jack Jack. I liked his fight with a raccoon. I thought that was fucking hilarious. He is my favourite character Jack Jack. Yes, yes. Jack Jack. But yeah, his fight with the raccoon. I thought that was awesome. Yeah. Yeah, well, every scene that involves Jack Jack and his many powers is my favourite scene to be fair. Yeah, because He simply has all the powers. He has all the powers. He's a greedy hog of everything. And the way he uses them is so creative in the film, like the fight between him and his arch nemesis, the raccoon is amazing. The way he becomes the Human Torch in this medicine wide shot is so awesome. And funny. And then he uses like the laser eyes on him, which is cool. And then later, when he sneezes, like launches himself in the air, like a rocket is amazing. But I think my favourite moment is when he's in the air vent with violet and dash on the boat. And one of the bad guys tries to crush them. And in their jacked up becomes a giant baby. And it sits on them is so funny and then runs off like the Hulk just brilliant comedy there. Yeah, I think in a sequel, they should just let him do everything. Just like just grow the baby at the villa. I don't need my family else do this. They really don't need anybody do whatever I liked when they used them as a gun. That was funny. Like a control like a universal remote Jack Jack lasers no firing the baby in the house Have you got a favourite scene then or favourite scene with Jack Jack? Yeah, you know I'm gonna I'm gonna give it to him fighting the raccoon. I keep I can keep Watching that seem like a lot. Just the animations of Jack Jack looking really angry at the raccoon is hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. So score for me for directing on Incredibles two, I think it probably is an Emperor, who is a tough one. It's a tough one. I think it is an improvement on the first one. It's one of those cases of just levelling up where you're like, you know, how do you make it more dramatic? How do you make it more action packed? Yeah, so I'll go and 8.9 I think, just really great animation. I think the standouts are last to go Jack Jack and viola, definitely. They utilise those three amazingly. Yeah. Oh, and from the villain slash not kind of affiliated team. Void a void. Yeah. You know that that's definitely the best new character that they into, you know, power character that they introduced. Yeah. So yeah, maybe like, yeah, knowing just how technically impressive scenes were great screenplay, then, it's interesting with this, with the first film where you have like the amazing twist on the superhero genre where superheroes are illegal and have to go into hiding. The plot of the first film is the past have to come out of hiding to save the city from syndrome, of which they do, and public cheering them on at the end. But the political situation never actually changed in the first film. But after they defeat the underminer, the political situation has gotten worse, like the middlemen and their agents have been handed their P 40. fives, the government have no control over superheroes anymore. They've stopped trying to shelter them or help them in any way now. So Brad, bird and CO don't have to be clever with the plot, because this illegal superhero plot was still a big loose end from the first film. So the story from the first film never really finished. You know? So it's just a natural sequel progression, I think that they can go into It's just a shame. We had to wait 14 years. But then. So I always got the sense in the first film that it was kind of an uncomplete story. You know, there was always more to explore. Yeah, because, you know, they didn't get like a pardon from helping with syndrome or anything like that. So yeah. Yeah, it's just kind of Yeah, I do agree with you. And when the three superheroes meet this new tycoon, Winston diva, played by Bob Odenkirk, I quite liked how they decided to go with Elastico as the superhero to relaunch the perception of superheroes not missing credible. One in the script. There's a funny use of feminism, where Bob is like, well, it should be should be me, of course, because, you know, it doesn't want to explain it without insulting his wife. And to Mr. Incredible is just too much of an insurance risk. And he just destroys everything. So it's just a really clever, funny way to have Elastigirl be the main focus instead of Mr. Incredible. In the in the main plot. Yeah. And even initially, she doesn't really want to do it. Yeah. Because she's always the responsible one. And even in the first film, she's always, you know, tugging away from like, trying to do superheroics we should, we need to keep our head down. We need to just, you know, be calm. But, you know, I like even that Bob is the one that he doesn't really want her to do this. He doesn't want her to be her. But she has to do this so he can do this. Yeah. So that's why he's supportive. So he does like she's like, you're not I'm not sure. And I love that seem like they're at home. You're not sure come on, you need to do this, you know, otherwise, like, we're basically screwed. You know, we've got two weeks to find a job. And I love the little exchange of, you know, like, he's basically gritting his teeth. You can do it. It's amazing. If you do it. You'll be fantastic at this. And then just before he goes to bed, so you do this, so I can do it better. Yeah. Yeah. For me, the one really disappointing thing about the film is that is the fact that the identity of screen slaver is not difficult at all to work out. That is Evelyn diva, the sister of the tycoon. There's a scene where the pars and Frozone meet the Divas and Winston dever explains how their father and mother were murdered by robbers because he relied on the superhero hotline to save them but they were x out exiled that night and Neverland says they would have survived if they went to a safe room. So the film immediately establishes that Evelyn is not a fan of superheroes. So then when elastic go was tracking screensaver slaver he does this very long voiceover as he's taking over a broadcast and halfway through. He literally says, You want superheroes to protect you and make yourself evermore powerless in the process while you tell yourself you're being looked after? And I was like, oh, okay, it's Evelyn then it's obvious And she's a techy person is definitely her, you know, it couldn't be more obvious in the script. And I don't know if they were trying to hide this line in such a long voice. Voiceover I don't know. I don't see why screen slaver can't be a completely separate character. But elastic girl moving through the city was quite awesome. But yeah, no, I completely agree with that. I mean, like, for example, yeah. You know, like in the first one syndrome is someone from Bob's past, right? Yeah. And when he comes around, that's kind of a reason to obscure his identity. But it's not like he's one of Bob's co workers, or he's not it's not a mystery who syndrome is? Yeah, it'll come out. And he's like, Yeah, I have an attachment, attachment to your past. That's a surprise. But do you know what I mean? is kind of strange to have this as a mystery film of villains identity. And to make it so blatantly obvious. It's like, you know it? Yeah, I think you're right. It can only be one person. She's trying to figure out who it is. The audience are trying to figure out who it is. You have very few characters that are actually working with her. Besides her family, there's not going to be her family. It's going to be one of two characters. Basically, it's either going to be Winston dever or Evelyn. And it can't be Winston, because he like actually, it would be more of a surprise if it was Wednesday. Yeah. But so that's where I think they kind of shot themselves in the foot. If they did the reveal that it was Winston, I think I would be, I'd be more surprised. It would still be kind of like it's been done. Yeah, yeah, you know, the guy that's obviously very friendly as the bad guy, but at least it would be a little bit more surprising than the person who is the tech genius. Who doesn't like superheroes is very snarky. Yeah, of course, of course, he's gonna be the one that you know, does this. Like the only thing that's meant to throw you off is the fact that it looks like a male, but she's a female. But you know, yeah, that's just silly. You know, that's, you know, you can pre record it. I can understand that. This is a Disney film at the end of the day, and you don't want to make it too convoluted, complicated, but come on, they they made it ridiculously all they really made it very easily. What they could have done is made made screen slaver, a separate character, and be like, a like a sympathiser for Evelyn's emotional state screen slaver like manipulates Evelyn's you know, emotions to help him out or whatever kind of had that kind of angle. So she's kind of suffering as well don't make like an evil character make her like a victim character that she's feeling forced to help screen slaver you know, yeah. And you know, and then you could have like, maybe she's got to make the decision of whether to, you know, go against him or whatever. But you know, there's things you could do this. There are different things you could do with her character. But yeah, I mean, yeah, she was fairly obvious. One of the good things really maybe about it is that they could have more interaction, her and Elastigirl that they could talk more, I suppose, not in a superhero supervillain context, you know about their philosophies without, you know, being unable. It may be but you know, again, it's not necessary. But I think I enjoyed like the Bob Parr storyline more where he's struggling to look after his family, you know, thinks they changed math, or maths in this country, and struggles to help dash with homework, struggles to look after Jack Jack, because he has all the powers conceivably imagined. But I think the most interesting and touching struggle for Bob is with Viola and her boyfriend's situation, because Tony saw her without her mask on Bob, get sticker to wipe Tony's memory. So violet gets really mad about that. And Bob tries to solve it really badly by going to the restaurant where he works and embarrasses violent. Really. Yeah, who shoots out so much. And then when Bob gets so tired, comes back from dropping off Jack Jack at Edna's place. And Bob apologises to Viola by saying, I'm used to knowing what the right thing is to do. But now I'm not sure anymore, I just want to be a good dad. I it's quite an emotional moment. I did get the feels in that moment a little bit. And I think they tackle the family dynamics better in this film, whereas the main plot is not as good, you know. So it's kind of roles are reversed in the first film, the main plot is amazing. Whereas the the you know, the family struggles is a bit of a bit more of a sideline subplot. Whereas they're kind of more equaled out in this film. But yeah, you know, the main plot is certainly not as good in the sequel. But what's great about the script is that when Helen Frozone and then finally Bob get hypnotised, you're like, Oh crap, the kids are just left to save the day. So the kids have to save the day, not the parents, which is definitely the best twist in this film. And all the best action is, is in the lacks which you've kind of touched on which is what makes the action action film so satisfying as we talked about in Hot Fuzz not necessarily all working together but lots of things going on with lots of characters and I think my favourite bit was when void tries to get elastic go up to the jet but they don't make it simple they make it look you know really challenging for void to to get Alaska go on that jet Yeah, that was good. I really like that again there's some great lines in this film. I think there are better ones in the first one but there's there's some good ones right let's start from Mr. Incredible ways like underminer we may to get sucked into the money sucking machine. Yeah, that was funny. Nom Nom cookie John Chow one. Where Bob is trying to find Jack Jack in the in the like sixth dimension or something. I like the one where when Edna Mode he takes it to Edna Mode. She's like I'm not a babysitter. Robert How could you ask? And then he Jack Jack like turns into Edna and then is off like a rocket. Before he lands on the ground. She tries to save him when he can fly. And she's like, Oh, my God. Yes. Yeah, she says I am not a baby person the rabbit I have no baby facilities. I am an artist. The flame retardant his BlackBerry lavender darling, effective, edible and delicious. I think it's also great when he comes back to see the Jack Jack is walking just like with instead of a cigarette. He's got like a candy stick. Yeah, it's so good. to uncross your silly why and crush. Oh yeah, you guys. What would you do if I asked you to punch someone? Makes no sense. You got a favourite line then? Oh yeah, you know math is math. Yeah, that little rant he goes oh mine is when Bob finds out Jack Jack has powers and after finding the raccoon Bob says you have powers yeah baby then there's not a scratch on you. Did you go through the lock door? I are those powers yours that you can multiply like rabbits and go right through any solid crap in this great great voice acting there maybe just displays everything he's got. Yeah, whoa. So screenplays score for me. I think it's such a shame because I think he would have been such a perfect movie if they just dealt dealt with the screen slaver plot a little bit better. A little a little bit. A little bla bla bla bla bla bla you know, I just I just wish they handled the screen slaver plot a little bit better, a little bit cuter, a little bit more sophisticated. But yeah, I would say kind of like the the villain is the weak point because she's not going to be Evelyn. Yeah, she's not going to be the character that I really remember from this film, which is strange. With a villain. I remember syndrome, I remember that syndrome made a huge impact on me. And you know, she doesn't she just doesn't but saying that the the family struggles Bob goes through is really good. And it is kind of a little bit emotional as well. So I'll go to 8.6 How about you sir? I'll go I'll go and eight voice acting then. I think what was so great about the first one is the fact that you could recognise in the character choices that they really found some great voices to play some of the minor characters. And I'm not sure they found amazing voices in these films in this film, but one which is great is to hear Bob Odenkirk as Winston dever the naive like business tycoon and you feel like Brad Bird is a big Breaking Bad fan and was like, well, the only guy to play Winston dever is the guy who played Saul Goodman. Very similar characters in tone. They really are. Maybe he's like Soul Goodmans you know, father or grandfather? Edna Mode is great again in this film voiced by Brad Bird. Definitely not in the film enough for me. The voice acting is not as good in the first film, but there's definitely a different dynamic with Edna's interactions with Jack Jack. She really takes to him. And it's just a brilliant, funny different side. But again, just not enough of Edna like the best character. It's just like, oh, yeah, she's good. That's a shame. Yeah, I like the way she's like, you know, she's looked after the baby and it's and she's got all this equipment on the deal with the powers and like, what do we owe you? Do you know basically the right to design all your costumes for the rest of time? But looking after this baby is free Darling you know? loves this this kid a BB you know Mr. Incredible I think Mr. Incredible might be my favourite great T Nelson. Yeah, Greg Nelson. I think he's my favourite and especially just as everything is very difficult for him. Like when he feels kind of emasculated by Elastigirl you could tell that's really getting to him. And the way he kind of performs that, then home life is really getting to him just like stress. It's like, how the hell does she deal with all these kids? You can tell he's just it's like taking his energy out. It's just I cannot deal with it. And then on top of that, Jack Jack has abilities just like yeah, holy shit. I love his voice acting where he's so exhausted. He just cannot even you know, keep his eyes open and his voice is just like really kind of where he's trying to explain the situation to Frozone and the ways that he just doesn't care anymore. The baby can vanish and frozen like holy shit, like he's like, Oh, that's nothing cookie. I mean, yeah, Mom cookie No, no cookie, but he just doesn't care. And he goes but when you take a cookie away it like turns into a monster. Samuel Jackson Oh my god. I love the bit when Bob comes back to Ed no modes place to pick up Jack Jack and then when he puts Jack when she puts Jack Jack through like the display testing thing behind the glass and then when he starts to change into the demon baby Bob's like, oh my god, we need to get cookies. Yeah, he's brilliant in that. But I really liked Sarah Val, who plays violet paw. I think she has Yeah, really interesting material to work with in this film, because she get has to get really mad. Barbie at times because of how badly Bob treats. Yeah, I love where she first chick firstlight loses his shit. It is like when she realises he had his mind erased. And I love that because he's just talking about it very casually, while he's opening the fridge and getting some stuff. Oh, yeah, you know, Decker or whatever. He's had to erase many memories and shit and closes the fridge and she's right there. Like based off memory race. And then she takes a suit like I renounce this sealer and can't like destroy it and the garbage disposal. Oh, my favourite. Sorry. Is Jack Jack. Just all the brilliant, like aggressive baby noises from Le fu sale. It's just really funny. I can't do it. Just really just hilarious. What's yours? Yeah, I think mine would be Mr. Incredible. So my score for voice acting again. I just miss Edna as you know Brad Bowden Edna just not enough. Yeah, so I'll give it like a 7.9. I think I think that is very fair. I was actually going to suggest that really? Yeah, I think that's very fair, because this podcast is set up in three different segments. And we have to judge acting. It's just voices in animation. So you have to take off a few points for that. So I'm struggling. I'm either going to go 7.9 Or I'm going to go eight. I'll go 7.9 I'll go. Okay, cool, right let's add up the schools then for Incredibles two. Incredibles two gets 50.3 so Incredibles two wins this one with 53 points, whereas Star Wars Force Awakens was completely robbed with 48.9. So loser, if you want I could put I can put an extra 0.5 Now it's fine Asia? Yeah, I'm gonna be but no, I'll just cry later in the corner. Right next week as another film from a very high profile director. House of Gucci will be out in cinemas, starring Adam driver, and a completely unrecognisable Jared Leto, and Lady Gaga. And that film is directed by of course, Ridley Scott. So we'll be having a look at Ridley Scott films and we kind of already done a Ridley Scott episode in disguise when we did space films when Oh, yeah, first is The Martian. So we won't be picking those Yeah, shit. And I think that was the time where I actually realised he directed the Martian. And as always, we have a buy me a coffee account. So if you want to say a big thank you follow the show notes below, click on the link and you can say a big thank you and just spend a couple of quid that'd be amazing. Well as you have been incredible, as always, yeah. You have something to do with Star Wars. Bye bye. Bye. That's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like to find out more about the podcast or suggest future topics for us to discuss related to upcoming releases, let us know on Instagram at film versus film podcast and on Twitter at fVf underscore podcast. Remember, please subscribe pod signing off