Film vs Film Podcast

Comic Book Team Films - X2: X-Men United vs The Incredibles

November 06, 2021 Martin Harries Episode 50
Film vs Film Podcast
Comic Book Team Films - X2: X-Men United vs The Incredibles
Show Notes Transcript

This week on the pod of course we are returning to focus on the marvel cinematic universe with the release of Eternals. So we will be choosing our favourite comic book team films for this weeks episode.

Warning we will be talking SPOILERS.

Boaz's pick this week is arguably the best X-Men film with a team. On this one we talk about how creatively the X-men work together to create such satisfying action scenes. Of course we talk how amazing the that opening nightcrawler scene is. Plus more gushing on Hugh Jackman of course. IMDB page   

Martins pick for this week is arguably the best fantastic four film we've had to date in disguise, one of Pixar's finest,  The Incredibles. On this one we talk great action especially with Dash. We talk about how brilliantly quotable this film is and just how brilliant an idea this film is for a superhero film and why it feels so refreshing. IMDB page 


As ever please enjoy

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Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England. If you enjoy this podcast please leave us a review and subscribe. This week on the Sam Jackson and Hugh Jackman obsessed podcast. As the Eternals is out on the big screens, we'll be having a look at our favourite comic book team films. And as ever, I am joined by Cyclops or Nightcrawler or whatever your favourite whatever his favourite X Men is. Mr. Bow Aztecs. How are you sir? I am Bo as man. Cool. Topical knowledge on comic books and movies. Cool. Yeah, I'm doing good man. Well, though, actually, you are right man. Now that you said that so many of my films have either Hugh Jackman or Samuel Jackson. Yeah. It's basically their show this thing should change the title. Jackson and Jackman jerky that is a good title. We just masturbating the egos of of these two amazing actors just in everything. Alright, as you may already know, by now we have a buy me a coffee account. So if you look in our show notes below, click the link. And if you want to say thank you or show your appreciation, click on the link and buys a coffee. That would be amazing. What is your pick then? Mr. Uncyclopedia? Man for comic book team films. X 2/92. X Men film? Yeah. Cool. Why did you pick this one? I think we've referenced it several times. Every time we talk about like an X Men movie, when we did was it Days of Future Past and Logan? Like I did always sort of mentioned x 2x. Two is in my mind like, either one of the best or the best, you know, X Men themed universe thing that I quite like Yeah. And obviously has like huge, nostalgic resonance. In my childhood. I remember being hugely excited to watch this movie. And it was blown away when I watched it. I think it's kind of like an unappreciated, like, masterpiece. Well, you know, for a superhero movie. Yeah. Yeah. And definitely for an excellent movie. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, it's kind of that's kind of why I picked it. You know, I think when you say, and obviously, I think most of the X Men films are like, okay, to some being really bad. And this one just stands out, I think is like ahead of the curve, and you know, kind of gets forgotten about. Yeah, this is like one of the first DVDs I ever bought. I think I remember one time I watched. I've seen it several times before. But one evening, I as a kid, I watched X Men two on DVD, and then I literally immediately watched the audio commentary. Straight after. Yes, same. I've watched the audio coming. I think this was one of the first audio commentaries of any movie I've seen on DVD. Where I was like, you know, yeah, just working on the commentary. Yeah. And I watched all the behind the scenes and everything. DVD DVDs of that era were just so cool just packed with so much random stuff. Yeah, extras. So what happens in x two. So a filler in a sort of the X Men universe is there are mutants and there are humans mutants are this next step in human evolution. The X Men are a superhero team of moving mutants, protect humans and mutant kinda like after the end of the first film, you know, humanity, like the president and all that they're a bit skittish about mutant mutants at the beginning of this film that adds more fuel to the fire where the President is almost assassinated by teleporter. So they have to try and find this teleport and workout. But it turns out this is all the clever plan of one General William striker, human military scientist who wants to eradicate mutant kind. So he uses this incident to further his agenda of capturing the X Men and finding a way to kill all of all of the mutants. This forces like Magneto and his brotherhood, the villains from the first Film to join forces with the X Men to to stop this conspiracy. Nice. This is like a tie between Days of Future Past with me in quality of Yes. Many films. I don't think I can separate him probably. Yeah, I think I quite agree. I think yeah, I think they're very close in my estimation. And after this film, you had a lot of you know, okay to sort of, like mediocre X Men films. And then I think days a future password. It took a while before the quality was like, oh, man, yeah, this is kind of a return to form for Bryan Singer and stuff. Because like they messed up. Last Stand. That was a bit of a mess. Yeah. And origins was really quite bad. Yeah, that was just well, Deadpool. My god. What did they do to him? Yeah, yeah, that was horrible. First class. First class was okay. Yeah, I liked it. I don't think it's anywhere near as good as like x two, but it's okay. It's fine. Pretty cool. Yeah, it's fine. And then I think Days of Future Past, you're like, holy shit. This is, you know, this is like, yeah. And I kind of gave up on X Men after that. Really? I haven't seen Yeah, Apocalypse. I've seen bits on TV and stuff. And I haven't really bothered with Dark Phoenix. Yeah, I haven't seen Dark Phoenix either. But yeah, I think those two are just where it peaks. You know, x two is just phenomenal. And it took a while for it to get, you know, that kind of level again, and it's just so right directing then for x to the action scene where strikers men take over the school is great. Like, my favourite moment, is when a special ops guy is trying to like stab Logan with a small knife. Then Shing Logan's claws are out. And he stabs the guy through the ribs really intensely, you know, it's just a really great, you know, introduction. So Wolverines action, but there is a moment that that feels a little dated to me where Wolverine dives off the balcony and takes out a load of guys, but then they kind of cut all around it, which I don't think he would do today. It's still fairly effective but I think if I didn't care around it so much, it would have been a bit more effective plus when closers says to Logan, I can help you and then Wolverine says help them as they're going through the secret escape door and I was like, No, let him help you. It would be awesome. glosses just threw two guys through a wall. Yeah, you know, it would have been so cool to just have like a little like tag team cameo in that bit. Yeah, that would have been cool. Like a fastball special or whatever. You just didn't want to be upstaged. It's like it's my film. Go save the kids. Maybe take them back guys. Yeah, but yeah, no, I do think the the the assault on the school is just is an awesome scene. You've just got all of this stuff going on. It's phenomenal. I just remember it in the trailers and stuff. It just blew me away and then but yeah, Colossus turning Wolverine I love where he goes like stealth on a bunch of soldiers required and he's just just just an incredible Yeah. Oh, were they they're knocking out the kids with a dart guns and then yeah, that girl like just falls through the floorboards and she's like going through them and walls and stuff. That was cool. One of my favourite scenes is when they're all in like the X Men jet. And there's two F 16 jets that tell them to land or lower their altitude and they fall back like on missiles and storm creates like tornadoes to stop them which is really like visually really cool. Then just before they stop the F sixteens. One fires two missiles and Jean Grey stops one and the other explodes right next to the XJ which makes a big hole and row flies out and Nightcrawler teleports to save then the XJ is like crashing to the ground. But Magneto saves and you know, I like it a lot because multiple mutants are all working together to create a really cool gear he's of action scene. And we're not focusing just on 1x Men character. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I think that this film does it really well like having the whole huge cast of characters because it's not even just the core X Men like the first film, but you know all of them, you know, magnetars brotherhood and just everybody does something really awesome. So obviously everybody's gonna go well, you know, Wolverine is gonna do awesome things because he did most of the awesome things in the first one but they just make everybody do like cool things and team up together. Yes, it is spectacular. And I think you're right that that jet scene was amazing. Because you know you have storm just doing some incredible stuff Jean Grey and, and Magne it's all pretty seamless as well. It is pretty seamless. Yeah, it'll make sense. You forgot to mention actually with the storm thing. I love that and I could never get like she calls down like dozens of tornadoes. For the The jets and I even love that same way. Wolverines like Have we got any weapons in this heap and she just turned around and she's her eyes are white like like she is the weapon but I like all the tornadoes are coming down and she smashes a jet with two tornadoes like one coming from the bottom and one come up like I I've never seen anything like that since like a sandwich tornado, but man, that's cool. They incorporate storms action really well. You know, there's a bit where she uses lightning to get Nightcrawler off from the rafters in the church. That was that was a nice touch there. And what the way she freezes the room in the second Cerebro room to stop. Jason. Yeah. Jason. Yeah. Not Freddie. Freddie. Although he is. He is Jason. He can enter your head and like, Yeah, I like the fight between Wolverine and Yuriko played by Kelly hue of the fight is really well choreographed really smooth and stabby I think my favourite moment is when Wolverine stabs her with both claws in her stomach and you discover she can heal too. And she puts both hands on his arms and then her legs on his legs to pull his claws out. And does this great, like jump kick, which looks really cool. But what I really like was when she puts each limb on Wolverine it's synced with the dramatic music beat to make her feel like really badass and really dramatic. Plus a great death when she's filled with adamantium, you know and drops of metal come out of her eyes and nose. That was yeah, that was quite quite a nice touch. So because Wolverine has always had like, you know, the biggest action scenes in you know, physical fisticuffs or whatever core action in most of the films and I still do have a huge soft spot for the you know, your eco Lady Deathstrike and green fight in this film. I just think it's incredible. I think it's my favourite one that he's been in like, even when we were talking about Logan and him playing x 24. I still really like and I just forgot how much I liked it until I'm watching. Yeah, like, Damn, that's really good. Have you got a favourite scene then? Or? Sure. So I would say one of my favourite scenes is mainly because it was a hell of a way to open the film. Is the Nightcrawler attacking the press? Yes, mine as well. That is one hell of a way to open up. Yeah, so you're absolutely phenomenal. Yeah. That blew me away. And it still blows me away. When you watch it again. You go. They did all of this. It's just and it still holds up. You know? It still holds up. It still looks amazing. He's just taken down the entire security team in the White House. It's just so well done. Yeah, directed really well, just a brilliant like flowing camera, you know, before you get a real good look, and he's gone to attack someone else. And I think my favourite bit is when Nightcrawler enters the Oval Office, and we go into slow motion and he's teleporting a few times in the same shot taking out agents with ease. It's just a brilliant, yeah, flow to it. It's slow motion, roundhouse, teleports, rapid. Haymaker like teleports throws a guy. Yeah. Just incredible. Right. My score for directing. It's very good. Again, open it on the same bracket. Certainly the Team X Men ones not the solo ones the best with days of future past in terms of the Team X Men films. I think the best X Men film is Logan, I think. Yeah, I mean, the opening scene, amazing. A lot of the action is really well directed. It's just that that dive STUN is just cut together too much. So it looks a tad dated. So I'll go 8.6 Have a juicer. I could go on quite a few quite a while about like the action scenes because I think we've only kind of there was a lot of action in this movie. Yeah, there are so many scenes with so many characters. And I just think they're like the epitome of those characters. You're like, it's just amazing. Like Magni owes prison escape. That was fucking cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, I always think that's cool mystique and her fight in the spillway raising either under acting. Yeah, you can just keep going. There's so many really good fight scenes, like just throughout the whole movie. And I don't think it feels like too much or it's overnight or whatever. I don't think they even say the week welcome. It's like each fight scene feels unique, and it has a particular character doing. Yeah. It's always quite interesting, you know? And you know, Cairo as well. I mean, yeah, King. There's a lot of cool stuff in this. Yeah. Yeah, maybe like I'll go in 8.7 or something notch right screenplay there. The structure of this film is really interesting because the film has one giant third act for me. Like the whole last hour of the film is an Alkali Lake. Do you notice You know strikers on the ground base. Yeah, you know the first hour is all these different stories connected to strikers plot until they all come together and have to work together to take down striker. And I just love the confidence in the script to have the whole second half of the film just to be taking down well pretty much taking down striker just makes things very simple and you can you can take time with as you said all the action scenes you can take time with and really go through then what's interesting is the is when they stop striker and stop magnetic when they stop Magne fucking now he's making Nico. A film now. You have for me is Magne to when they stop Magneto targeting the humans and we still have 30 minutes left, the film becomes like a survival film right at the end because the dam is collapsing. If they don't get out of there, they're all gonna die. Which certainly makes the film even more intense and ramps up the film stakes even more even after the main plot is basically finished. Because none of them none of the X Men are safe at this point, you know? Yeah, I think I mentioned this about like, fire fire sale. Like if you've got an entire plot in one location. I think this does the same sort of thing is always change the goal. always change the goal of the character every year minutes. I think this definitely does that where it's rat, it doesn't leave your board. Oh, and free Fire. Yeah, and free Fire. Because I was saying about that how even now though, that's a long time in one location with one sort of setup, the goal keeps changing. And that keeps you invested where you're not like Okay, move along. I didn't feel like that from the second half. Like move along because I'm like, yeah, they're here to stop striker but it's like, Okay, we're here to stop the machine at Cerebro Oh, shit, we've got all these villains to fight so we've got to do that. And you Lady Deathstrike and all these other ones. Oh, we got Cyclops to beat up okay. All right. We're getting to the machine. Shit the dams busted. Okay, we've stopped the machine. Great. Now it's gonna kill all the humans are fucking hell. Yeah, now the dam is actually exploding. We're all gonna die. So it's like the gold changes. I'm just saying. Yeah, that's that's a very exciting thing to do. I think it would have dragged if the whole thing would be just kill striker or whatever, or just stop the machine and that was it for the last hour. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it would drag but it didn't because yeah, the goalposts keeps changing. Yeah, yeah, the goalpost keeps changing. I quite like the scene where Brian Cox's character William Stryker is talking to his son Jason in his ear, you know, in his very own Cerebro room. You see Charles Xavier has got the helmet on to Charles strikers words are interpreted by this little girl. And when we are on Stryker, and Jason we just hear strikers voice, they change perspectives really smoothly, where at first, the little girl just repeats what striker is saying. But then the little girl just says the lines of striker and Jason are behind Charles's shoulder, then at the end, striker just says the lines and not interrupted by the little girl, it just makes the scene more dramatic. And striker just says, the last line make me proud in because you've got like an interpretation, then you can, Bryan Singer has the opportunity to just really play with what perspectives he can can use in certain lines. It's just a really great device to just play around. And I think he pitched that perfectly in that moment. Just to give that great moment for striker at the end. We don't need to interpret it. By the end just make me proud, you know, because you've already established it at the start the scene. Yeah, so I think it also makes the interaction quite personal because you know, you've got Charles in like an imaginary world, and Stryker talking to Jason, and that being interpreted Jason talking to, but then it's almost as if Stryker is talking directly to Charles, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, definitely. Like, and it's more personal, because he, he fucking hates me hates me. I think it's kind of better that you basically establish this stuff, but then you can dial it back because everybody's aware of how these rules work. So then it's like Stryker is talking to Charles. Charles doesn't know that. But you know, that was a pretty good scene. Yeah, I agree. I really like the little hints of what's going to happen with Jean Grey. It's just not sudden in the end turning into the Phoenix, you know, she says right at the start, Scott, my dreams are getting worse Scott. I keep feeling something terrible is about to happen. Then when she explodes the last missile on the jet her eyes burn red for a moment. The same thing happens when she stopped Scott's beams under the dam. And I just like how they are very little clues, but they don't distract from the main plot, but it still has like a really impactful moment when she you know sacrifices herself at the end because it's payoff is paying off stuff. They do that a lot where there's just little things introduced. Well not little but big, I suppose introduced at the beginning and then there's payoff they do link into the main plot, but they are kind of like separate storylines, so even with another big one, you know, so you've got like Jean Grey and and her premonitions that something bad is gonna happen and her power as well just increases throughout the film. And then you have like Wolverine and he has no you know, he's struggling he wants to know how you know he lost his memory and got claws and all that stuff. And he can't find anything at alkaline Lake. He recognises striker who still doesn't know and then I love you know, you get paid off you get catharsis with that, where he confronts striker and stuff like that. I always remember that shot when he's coming down the tunnel, and he's all naked or full of blood all over me. Yeah, I'm not sure you could have that shot these days. It's quite dark on Netflix, maybe. But yeah, it kind of ruins it for me like X Men Origins Wolverine because their version is terrible. Like yeah, like these little flash memory flashes that he has. They're horrific you like, you know, where he's going around the thing and seeing claw marks and he's he's really remembering. You know what happened to him and how he reacted to all the blood and everything. That's how I like to remember that event. I think X Men Origins Wolverine just really took a giant shit on that because that was very PG. I think I blocked most of that film out to be honest. Yeah, I think you should like separate that. Now. The timeline for the X Men universe is very messy. Oh, god. Yeah. Yeah, I saw this guy tried to explain it. He was like, and even with like, the new ones with the new cast, like, from the 60s, the 90s, like 40s. And they still look the same. Exactly. You're like, okay, so get let me get this straight in about 10 years time. So from the 90s to the 2000s. Were your X Men one? Yeah, Michael Fassbender is gonna look like that. Ian McKellen? Like that doesn't make any sense. Do you know what I mean? I mean, the diets in the 20th 21st century must be shit. Looking good. And as soon as it's the year 2000. Why? wrinkles. What is in this food in this century? Yeah. There's a lot of great, great lines in this film. Really great writing in terms of the structure and in in the dialogue continues smoking that in here and you'll spend the rest of your days under the belief that you're a six year old girl. You do that? I'll have Jean braid your hair. Too much iron in your blood. Just off by grey action scene. Yeah, I love that. Or what was it Mystique where she actually pumps that guy with the metal. He's like, bottoms up and just drinks the thing turns over and puts metal in his ass and he's like, but I like the line from Pyro when they're in ice man's family home and his mum says this is all my fault. And then pyrosis actually, they discovered that the males are the ones who carry the mutant gene and pass it on. So it's his fault. And then points that the TAT you know, and then apparently cats like iced tea. I didn't know that. You can try that with your cat. Yeah, that's I'm surprised you had a tongue left because when we know Wolverine gets his claws out the you know, the cat likes the claws. Then when he retracts them, you hear him out? It's like oh, yeah, we cut his tongue off. Put the knives down. I can you are a God demanding insects. Never let anyone tell you different Magneto to Pyro that was cool. You are an animal then you're an animal. Now I just gave you claws. Yeah. And my favourite is from Stryker fairly near the beginning when he's talking to Senator Kelly. And they've just left the meeting room with the president. And he says I was piloting Blackhawks missions in the jungles of North Vietnam when you were sucking on your mama's Ted Ted, Woodstock Kelly. Don't lecture me about war. This is already set your favourite as well. Yeah, I think that's probably my favourite. So score for me for screenplay. I will go I think higher than directing because I kind of really liked the structure of the film. And I really like where you are Saying that, yes that you know that you have a giant third act, which I kind of really admire, but they have lots of different goals and they kind of keep changing. It just keeps the audience on edge. So I'll go like 8.7 I think, how about you? I'm going to go like 8.9. Nice, right acting, then I really like the little action scene near the end where Wolverine turns into mystique. And again, the action is really slick. And I've always really enjoyed like mistakes, action style, a lot of like flips and kicks with her legs and things. It looks really cool. And at the end, it's awesome. Where she's like, slides through the doors. And as they're closing and just gives him the finger. It gives the middle finger Yeah. Pass. She slides through the door. That was quite cool. In the third film, I was really pissed when she loses her powers in the third film, like and make me Oh, just abandoned. I was like, What are you doing? No. Yeah, that's such a good character. Yeah, she is. She's absolutely incredible. She does like a bunch of I think she's so cool in this movie. Yeah. Oh, when she tries to sleep with Wolverine. That's where she changes into like all the female characters. Yeah. And then even Stryker, I thought that was funny. Like, what do you really want? I actually remember the DVD commentary, where they were talking the director, like Bryan Singer, and what have you, they were talking. And they got to that scene. And she's changing, you know, into Jean Grey and into Stallman and Rogue and stuff. He's like, you know, get out. And she's like, What do you really want and she turns into striker and Bryan Singer was like sex with striker that's a whole different movie. That's a fanfiction there. Yeah. I love the acting from James Marsden. And Hugh Jackman, after Jean dies, you know, Wolverine keeps saying like, She's gone. She's gone. And Cyclops is just shaking him and he just let him do it. Just lets him be really aggressive with you. And, like, he doesn't know what's happening to him. You know, he's such, you know, Wolverine is in such shock. He just lets it happen as he's staring into space, like Cyclops isn't there. You know, really emotional stuff from both actors in that moment, really convincing. There's a great, great little moment from Patrick Stewart right at the end, where he's about to teach a class and just looks out the window. And it's really subtle look of astonishment. And then a student says Professor Is everything all right. And Charles just turns back around with a smile on his face and just says, Yes, I think it will be such a random moment not seemingly connected to anything until you hear Jean Grey's voice. And then you see the wings in the water. And then they mess him up. Yeah, yeah, hit her resurrection and mess it up. Messed it up twice now. But I think it's, yeah, because I was so pumped for the third one, because it ends on a cliffhanger ends on Yeah, yeah. She's coming back as like, you know, Phoenix, and you're like, oh, shit, this is crazy. But it's such such a great moment for Xavier's character, because he knows in that moment that something's that she's back, you know, but not the same. You know? It's just yeah, really well done. I think. So my favourite performance for me is Brian Cox, a striker. Just a really great role for him as the villain. You just can tell he's really enjoying himself in this role. Yeah, definitely. For me, he's got the best lines. Yeah, just brilliant. of Brian Cox. Yeah, no, because I was saying before, when you were talking about, you know, the script and lines. Yeah. And you were saying all these other lines, and lots of characters have loads of lines. Brian Cox has some really amazing lines. And he delivers them great. I love when he's basically baring his heart about, like how much he hates me. And so you can tell he despises them. But he's all been trying to be fun and games and a bit sarcastic most of the time. But he truly hates them, like with a passion. And he tells that story about how his son who's a mutant is responsible for his wife's death. And you know, he's, you know, he's very pissed off. He's very distraught and slightly, and I like that line of, you know, he brings in his son who's now like this experiment, mind control, you know, mutants. And he's like, What have you done to your son? This is your son. He's like, No, Charles, my son is dead just like the rest of you. He just storms. Yeah, really great. Sal performance and times and really intimidating at times as well. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Is that your favourite performance as well? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, I think yeah, William striker definitely stands out to me as it's just like one of the best I don't think it because they've recast him so many times now. And I still really pined for Brian Cox. And it's like, I don't think any of these. Yeah, no, you know. So my score for acting, I will go. I think the standouts are Hugh Jackman again, he's always good in all of the films we've picked from him. I'll stick the one now. Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellen. They're amazing in all the films that they've done for me. So I will go, like 8.5. About user. Yeah, I'll get 8.6. Right, let's add up the scores, then 4x 2x. Men united, x two gets exactly 52 points. Is a good score. All right. My pick then, is the Incredibles one of pixels finest films, I would say. Not sure I put it in my top five. But it's definitely in the top 10. I would say why did I picked this one? Well, there was a lot to choose from. And we had done a few already. Like I'd picked Guardians of the Galaxy already. I probably would have picked that one if we hadn't picked that already for comic book team films. So that was probably my go to one. And there's the obvious like Avengers films. They're all amazing. But I think there's so much content about those films out there. And also, I didn't want to like, admit that Boaz doesn't have a heart because he didn't cry at the end of endgame so that wouldn't be good for you. At the end of anything, man, I rarely cry I don't even think heart of stone. I think I lost my tear ducts. In the meat of the great meeting, I secretly a mutant. Actually, that would be funny if if I was involved in x two. And so like I'm Bo as Dex and i i joined in the fight against Brian Cox Cox versus Dick's Oh, yeah. That is a very different Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's X rated those titles Yeah. Yeah, I'm not reading your fan fiction gardener you will be appalled. Rice Cox verse six, my God. So when I you know, did my Google Search for Common book team films. And when I saw Incredibles I was like, yeah, definitely. Let's pick that one. This is awesome. Yeah, so what happens in The Incredibles? Well, we kind of we start with these great interviews, which are really interesting, but the film starts proper in this kind of like 40s style era you know, World of Super Heroes and Super Villains where crime seems to be happening everywhere. And Mr. Incredible saves this guy trying to commit suicide for this building. He tries to stop bomb viooz who tries to blow up the building and he gets away because of his number one fan. All of a sudden, the guy that he actually saved sues Mr. Incredible and then there's kind of this snowball effect where there's great newsreel footage where literally all these superheroes keep getting sued. So then we kind of go several years later where all these superheroes are like living among normal people they've all been relocated and can't use the they have to hide their superpowers. So Mr. Incredible ends up with like a normal job in an insurance company in like a big office building. But then one day he gets a he gets a secret message delivered to his home and it's about they need his help to take down this robot and test out test its weaknesses or whatever. And then so he pretends that he's going on these conferences and he keeps battling this robot but then Mr. Incredible soon finds out that syndrome was behind all their study he has a like a James Bond his arch nemesis Yeah, James Bond style plot to fly this robot over to the to the mainland in America and and making it like syndrome is the hero by defeating the robot. So then he can become the leader of the new superhero era if you like we basically had all the previous superheroes murdered yeah, there's really the Yeah, you know, the pause and frozen. Yeah, so then, Helen Parr finds out through his homing beacon from the amazing Edna Mode. And then her kids stow away, and they join the fight with Mr. Incredible and take down syndrome. And then the underminer of the so yeah, it's a really cool like superhero story. Nothing we've kind of seen before in a superhero hero genre a really nice spin on it. I love the elements with bond as well. That was that was really nice. What do you make of this one? I do have a soft spot for it. i Yeah, I think it's great. And it's one of those ones that it's you know, I mean, it's done by Pixar. I mean, they do amazing stuff. Anyway, it was entertaining. It's fun, lots of action. It's pretty heartfelt. Yeah, I do, like, as you said, like, it's not just the superior stuff, but the spy stuff. And it's just a really well done film. And it's kind of interesting, because it's not really based on a prior intellectual property. Like most of the other things we talk about, like they use something else at some point. But you know, Pixar has the clout where they can just make up I mean, they do frequently just make up ideas, and they're always hit. So it's no exception. I feel like the golden era. I think some of the films now are okay. Yeah, I think they're launching a lot of okay, well, more than okay, they're really good. But I mean, this one along with a lot of other ones in the naughties era that decade was just masterful films you know, so good your toy stories and Wally up, inside out, stuff like that just really great stuff. Alright, directing then for the incredible I think the first fight with history incredible he has with the robot is really cool. I like the design of the robot because it has this very like cartoony design, where it's just like a ball with four arms and he kind of just flings his arms around that was quite a nice way to animate the robot which fits really well with the tone of the film and I like the bit where Mr. Incredible get so pain in his back. And then the robot tries to tear him into and just ends up cracking his back straight, which helps him defeat the robot which is you know, really creative funny storytelling. Plus I love the way Mr. Incredibles see is too small for him. And there's just bolding out of it. Which is kind of a nice funny detail was there's so many funny things about like his his way how he's basically got a dad bod because he's a dad now and back then he was like, he was like ani now he's like Ronnie yeah but yeah, I like the same way That's a bit harsh. Yeah, that is a bit harsh. It's a bit uncalled for he could still kick my Yeah, I like that bit where he keeps he's gonna get shot out from the rocket put in and the guy keeps pressing the button and he just won't fit through the damn pod like I love how this film combines like superhero elements with James Bond elements in the story and design. I love the design of syndromes secret islands you know the jet Mr. Incredible is in goes underwater into this secret entrance you know and all the water drains out while he's eating prawns. They travel across the islands in mono rail and this massive waterfall just opens up Mr. Incredible is shown to his room just like a 60s Bond movie lover. When Mr. Incredible is sneaking around at night and rides the monorail it's just like You Only Live Twice. There's even some trumpet music cues straight out of an early Bond film in the shot where the Mano rail car takes out the guards where Mr. Incredible just throws it from a distance. And it's backlit by the moon. It's just a really nice shot. There was a nice little sequence. There certainly is a strong homage to you know, early Bond films for me. And not just superhero films. Yeah, it just kind of reminds me as well like of really early like Superman cartoons in like the 40s and stuff because of the whole sort of Art Deco. Oh yeah, sort of art deco look of everything. Yeah, but you know that that's just kind of a design thing, just how the how the fashion of the time and how like buildings are designed and how interiors are designed. Yeah, this reminds me of that kind of stuff. I really like the little scene where Mr. Incredible gets caught in the main control room where lots of these cannons emerge on the walls in fire this black goo that expands on Mr. Incredible as he tries to escape. It's just a really creative way to stop someone like Mr. Incredible. Plus, I love how the cutting of the scene gets quicker and quicker to almost a blur between the shots of cannons firing and shots of Mr. Incredibles face. Then there's a great POV shot of the black stuff likes slowly blocking his vision just really dramatic and creative visuals have never really yeah It's just a really great scene. They're just really clever. Yeah, I agree that that was an amazing sequence. And yeah, as you've said, firing the cannons on him because it slows up at first the cannons come out you're like what is going on and you know, the music starts and he gets fired by one one of the cannons and starts to expand. And then it starts to cut faster and faster. It's like the cannons him running the cannons him getting cannons, him getting covered cannons, him K cannons, Cannon County. And then he's like, ah, like that just it doesn't make it incredibly tense. It's just how it's how it's cut together. I love elastic go in this in this film. I forgot to say at the start. This is basically the best fantastic for film today. Pretty much and they use elastic girls so well so creatively in the action and it's funny as well. I love the little action scene where elastic girl's leg main body and arm gets stuck in three different doorways on the base. And her hand has to like feel the goons chin before punching him in the face. That's funny. Like a goon pate pokes her leg and like what the hell is this? And just kicks the goon you know her body clotheslines, two goons on a vehicle that was growing. Again just really creative action and making it funny as much as two other goons when lucky games. And I feel like Brad Bird and CO have really thought about how they can use the powers their powers creatively in this animated story. And being an animated film certainly in in individual moments with the characters they've really thought about how they can use these characters in this animated world. Which way you can get away with so much more. You know, I would say one of my favourite if not favourite sequences is his dash is when dash goes as fast as he can. That whole sequence was incredible with the running on the water and Yeah, amazing. It was just amazing. I I still get chills whenever I see that scene. Yeah, cuz even talking about it, how the music is set up and everything of for that scene, it looks visually incredible. He's running away. There's real sense of danger. He's even getting hit, which is crazy. These guys are even punching. And shooting at him and I just love when he runs on water. That is just such an incredible moment because he's running running running these guys and then the music just kind of cuts out and he realises Oh shit, I can run on water. And then the music comes back in again. Much harder than before. Whoa, this is incredible. Because he's being chased by the by goons in these like flying razorblade hovercraft thingies, you know, and the action is so dynamic and thrilling because the camera is going so quickly and staying with the characters while the environments around them are going lightning fast. You know, think you can only really achieve this animation. It's like you're on a roller coaster in that scene. At some point. It's not to say you can't do this in live action because it did remind me a bit of Return of the Jedi with the speeder bikes sequence. So they use a lot of a lot of under cranking there and then playing it a normal speed. So yeah, that's my favourite scene as well. I think all the action scenes even before and after that are really great. And even the big one with the robot and the city is amazing. It's a big set piece. I think they did a good job. But I don't think anything can beat like just the dash seen in. It's just it's so exciting. And I think also because it's from his point of view, constantly. You're getting the world just rushed by it's like, yeah, as you said, it does feel like a roller coaster. Yeah, that was really good. And I love the bit where so he's running and even how that sequence ends where they haven't cornered, and he doesn't know what to do. So he just stays still and you think I screwed. And then you realise when he's running, that's when he can actually stay on what so we just sinks beneath the waves. And those ships just collide into each other rather than him. Yeah. That was fun. I love how creative the action is in terms of how the family work together to solve problems and fight the bad guys. There's a great bit after the J explodes and they're in the water and Elastigirl makes herself into like a boat and dash kicks his legs in the water creating like a living speed. While Paul VI is just like sat in the middle, getting cold, but I feel like in the last fight the whole family and Frozone when they fight the robot. It's really cool in individual moments. I mean, I think the creativity just isn't as good when they work together. Very few moments when that happens when they work. together it's more like characters are saving each other rather than working together to get you there via is holding a shield to protect dash or dashes running around to find the remote or, you know, Barb is beating up the robot. Or, you know, Helen is throwing stuff at the robot with a relaxing powers and frozen. But yeah, I do get you. They're all separate. I wish there were more moments like as you said, The speedboat one, but also, you know, where dash and violet, like she makes a forcefield and he runs with her to have this like hamster wheel for so. It's like that was awesome. Yeah, they could have incorporated something like that. Yeah, I think they I think they should have done way more of those kind of team moves at the last fight. I do agree. They're just very few we're like, well, that's cool. But they happen way before the finale. And then the finale. They're just Yeah, individually. Yeah. Not to say they don't work together at all. There are fleeting moments like yes, I said the Speedboat. But and like right at the end. Where Mr. Incredible literally froze elastic goal to syndrome. Oh, yeah. It's like a javelin. Yeah, that was good. That was good. But yeah, they could have had like, dash in the forcefield. That via is creating and then like use elastic l like a slingshot ring call to get onto the top of the robot on and do something like, it's a shame because you don't have limitations in this world. It's an animated film, you can do what the hell you want. Whereas in like X Men two, there are limitations a little bit. Whereas I think the best action scene where where these teams work together is in x men to and not in this film, unfortunately. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I agree with that. I would say so. You know, it just makes me really want to see Incredibles two again to see if that sort of thing is better? I don't know. I think I've only seen that film one. So I need to revisit that. Yeah, I've only watched that one. I've watched Incredibles a lot. I've only watched Incredibles two once. So directing score. What are you going with boathouse I think it's visually very nice, very nice to look at. And it does have this sort of timeless, like old timey but timeless feel to it. And it's very colourful, and it's it's fun and so oh god maybe like an 8.2 No, no, that's a bit it's a bit strange. I don't I'm not sure where to put it. Really? I'll give it an 8.5 8.5 Yeah, I think I'll still go with the eight I might go 8.4 Because this whole thing in when we were talking about Hot Fuzz is kind of stuck in my head a little bit wherever the best action scenes are at the end again this Incredibles unfortunately falls into the trap it's in the middle it's not the end. It's with dash dash is the Yeah, I would say dash is the MVP he's the most valuable player in that scene with that. It's so weird that in The Incredibles and there are great action scenes and there's great stuff with BB but there's great stuff with hell and we've talked about those things and with the family but you like that dash scene should not be as good as it is it's it's incredible it's absolutely do you think the last fight is nowhere near that ideal? But yeah, no I agree with you just like what we said in Hot Fuzz like they did it perfect of having the best action scene the best career stuff at the end right screenplay then four Fantastic Four yeah I really enjoyed the opening interviews of Mr. Incredible will ask to go and Frozone it kind of makes the world and characters feel so much more real and brings more detail and nuance to the world. And I like how Mr incredible things the interview has finished at one point and tries to walk off and take his microphone off and then cut to another question. I thought that was genius. It just brings a weird realism to it even though it's picks I think it draws you in immediately forgetting it's animated in a way it's just a really cool opening I really like that I love how the opening scenes play out it's it's a great action sequence you know where Mr. Incredible saves a guy trying to kill himself and then Mr. Incredible tries to our brand bombed by. But yes, but he escapes because his number one fan. What does he call himself? Incredibly incredible. Yeah. As incredible. And you think the rest of the film was about trying to catch this French dude. But no, the guy trying to kill himself Sue's Mr. Incredible. And it just snowballs from there. And this brilliant like black and white 40s New Style real reveals that all the superheroes have to be relocated and live a normal life. And it's such a brilliant idea to set up your film completely unexpected and very plausible. If the if this was real and because of all the bureaucracy we have now. A man of steel to Should have been this film realistically. Well, you know, BBs. Yeah. 100% literally everyone's suing suits. Hundreds of million pretty much can't afford on our report salary. Yeah, I quite like the trajectory of the film because it's it's mostly on Bob, and just the fact that he is not happy with his life. He just feels bored. He is just underappreciated. He misses the glory days that the film is basically an arc of he doesn't really know what he's got until the end. Because it's like, yeah, he had these glory days, and he still keeps trying to capture this and he hates his life now. He just hates everything. Then he gets into this, this mission of being a superhero. Again, it turns out it's for syndromes. And then when he thinks his family's dead, it's like, no, they were the most important thing. None of this shit mattered. It was a family. That's what you should have been focusing on. Yeah. And so I think it had quite a good message. One of like, you know, fam family is here is important. It's very important. But to its, you know, if you are kind of amazing, you shouldn't have to hide it. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, definitely don't have to hide who you are. Because certainly the opening scenes it kind of plays out like with the family dynamics, they're all really frustrated that they can't be themselves just in this film. They you know, they can't, they can't use their superpowers and Helen Parr played by Holly Hunter, the mother is trying to keep the family together dash gets sent to the head teachers office. You know, Helen has to deal with that. There's a family argument at the dinner table where dash is making fun of violet because of a boy he likes. It's just like all normal stuff like you would expect in a family drama. But they're superheroes like when they're having the fight over it. Yeah, just very normal family issues. But it makes the film really relatable and makes you really care about these characters. You know, towards the end when they're you know where they are in jeopardy. Even when Helen and the kids are in the thick of it in the story on the plane. And she has to find the babysitter to check that Jack Jack is okay he tries to send us a home and get a new one from a service. The family dynamics are always there throughout the whole of the film you know very like family issues from minute one to the end you know, I like when even there in the rocket Do you remember that? Helen his whole minivan onto the rocket dash is like Are we there yet? He's like we'll get there when we get there. Sometimes we get there when we get there. How are you doing honey? Do I have to answer the arguing on the freeway? We take the left Jenks you know. Yeah, some great great lines. Right at the start in the interviews for Mr. Incredible. Sometimes I just want to stay safe. You know, just for a little bit. I feel like I made I just clean up this mess. Can we keep it clean for 10 minutes? The way Mr. uncuttable says Showtime. I quit that. Tell me where my suit is woman we are talking about the greater good. I'm your wife. I'm the greatest good you if you didn't save my life. You ruined my death. My client has no comedy. Oh, I love so when he gets fired. That is amazing. That scene is great. Yeah, his boss is a complete bastard because he's trying to help people that come to, you know, for insurance and stuff. I like that scene actually where you first see him with the time jump and he's at the office. He's saying like to the old woman that they can't cover, you know, their insurance can't cover and she's crying. And he gives like, I can't help you ma'am. I really wish I could. If I would. I would tell you to go see this woman and fill out this form. And then do that. But I can't. I'm sorry. It's like you know sorry ma'am. I can't help you start pretend to cry. That was great. But yeah, and then he throws his boss through like several walls that was that was the most badass way to quit your job or to get to get fired? Who could do that? Just grab your boss and throw him through several walls. Yeah, this is so many good lines. I serve you to drop by her never heard that. My favourite character by far is admin mode. Oh my God, you've come in come. This is a hobo. So darling. You can't be seen in this. Yes, she's brilliant. Completely bulletproof and machine washable, darling. That's it. Of course no caps were just become a an internet meme now it's everywhere. Long I think yes the only thing people know is my favourite. Did you see that video of this was years ago when Madonna fell off stage she tripped out she tripped off a cape she had this huge fell down the stairs and this guy just put Edna Mode. Okay? It's just incredible. It's an incredible thing. Oh well, was I Oh, yeah, Helen says to Edna. Jack Jack doesn't have any powers. No. Well, he looked fabulous. Anyway. It's a good one from syndrome. You married last ago? Whoa. And got you I think syndrome is an underrated character. This he's he's pretty damn funny. Well, do you remember because they keep they keep talking before as well about how villains are so stupid that they monologue. Do you remember that? When he's talking to Frozone he literally had me in his grasp. And he's, he's you know monologuing about how I'm so much weaker than him. But I like how like incredible is like, buddy and then he gets into monologue. And he's explaining what how we became a super villain. And then incredible just throws a tree at me like oh, you can't me monologue it. You slide doc. Yeah. That was brilliant screenplay score then borrow is what you're going for? I'm not sure if I like it more than the directing. It's possible. I do. Because I can quote the hell out of this film. Yeah. 8.8 Maybe? Yeah, I think I'll go the same to be honest. And as you said, right at the start of this, you know, this is not based on an IP at all. This is all original stuff. Even though it is kind of the best fantastic for but yeah, just the way it goes. The whole time jump thing is genius. I've never seen that before. And to see Beru live action film. Yeah, just just brilliant stuff. But yet again, as you said, so quotable. So I think I'll go the same actually 8.8 right voice acting then. I love Wallace Shawn as Gilbert Hugh, you know, the the manager of the insurance company. He's, you know, brilliant. When Bob is called into his office, you kind of touched on it a little bit. For the second time, the way he goes from like being really irritable, you know, irritating and then being really patronising is amazing. And you know he's kind of really angry at moments as well such a brilliant voice for an animated film so unique I felt like Pixar really take care in like what voices they want to hear in their films. I think that is brilliant you know this is certainly one of them. Also the the character like the middle man character that has to like relocate, Mr. Incredible just a really nice like soft voice just a really great voice for that character just seats that character so well. And of course I absolutely love Brad birds performance as Edna Mode. Who is the director of this film by the way who voices okay. Yeah, I was I was like, really awesome. That's surprising. I can't believe it didn't know that just this amazing like sassy supermodel fashion designer who calls everyone darling and completely dominates every conversation. I just love the scene where she's talking about the new suits the new Super Suits like it's high fashion. Just really hilarious voice that again suits animation so well in this tiny character and I think if this voice was in live action, it would just be so off putting and it just wouldn't work. But in an animated film like this, it works so beautifully is by far the best guards and all the best my favourite scenes are with her for me my favourite scenes are with her I love when Helen is like crying because she realises Bob is like on some fucking island somewhere. Pacific Yeah. And he's like oh, what did I do? What did I see? He's like, what do you do? Is this a question? You are Alaska girl and she picks up a you know like a roll of newspaper and hits around. Oh, yeah. My favourite performance is Brad Bird as Edna Mode. What is yours? I think she would be like my second. I think I would give it to Mr. credible and then maybe I read no mode as a very close second. Craig T Nelson emplacements. I put him as my first and then her as my second. Yeah, okay, wrong, but fine. So what's your score going to be for voice acting? I'll go 8.8 Again, really? Okay. That's very high. Yeah, I think we've kind of talked about this before, but it's nice talk about it again. It certainly takes an awful lot of air for actors, using their voices in such light, strenuous ways for animated films, you know, they have to do it over and over again. And certainly directors have to work around the voice performances. So it's always really important to get those performances right for the director. So, it does take an awful lot of skill, I would say, certainly in the variations of moods and because, you know, these characters are so larger than life, the actors have to be so larger than life with their voices got, you know, with the insurance manager and lots of the characters they have to go from like anger, anger to sadness, like really quickly. I know they have lots of time in between, but you know, that it's it can be really challenging, but they're only using their voices. They're not using their whole bodies in these films. So you know, I'll go like an 8.1 thing, right? And let's add up the scores then for the Incredibles, Incredibles gets 51.4. So this week, x two wins with 52. So very, very tight. Dude, I just realised something. I realised this a minute ago. But x two gets 52x Two. Yeah, has a two in it ends and 2x two, yeah. And five times two is 10. And the Roman numeral for 10 is an X. Am I clutching is no, I guard bow as Dex is great. I have finally lost. I think I've been doing this way too long. Yeah. My God. He's found his his ex clutching at straws. He digs the useless stuff. I want him in the next fantastic Yeah, I just make that I made the villain just kill himself. Yeah, cuz he's like, What are you? So X Men two comes in at joint 23rd place with middle Miller's Crossing. And the Incredibles comes joint 26 with me by your name and fantastic, Mr. Fox. Yeah, it's an interesting company. So next week, we are not actually going to be relating our subject to a film release, we're actually going to relate it to Remembrance Day. So our subject for next week will be war films. And I think it's always really important to realise that films aren't always just about entertainment, it can be so much more than that. And war films in particular, are such a great way to experience what our fallen heroes went through for our history and all the wars that have unfortunately had to happen in our history. So yeah, certainly a really important subjects that I want to have a look at. So yeah, we'll be picking our favourite war films for next week. And of course, as you may know, already, we have a beaumier coffee account. So if you look in our show notes below, you can click on the link and if you want to show your appreciation and say a big, big thank you. You can buy us a coffee, and it'll be really, really nice. Thank you very much. Bow as you have been incredible. is the only way it's really for this week. You have been excellent united, I don't know. Bye bye. That's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. 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