This week is absolute carnage! As Venom: Let There Be Carnage its the big screens, we decided to focus our attentions on our favourite Tom Hardy films who of course stars as Venom.
Warning we will be talking SPOILERS.
Boaz's pick for this week is yet another gangster film, (I'm sorry he can't help himself) Legend. On this one we talk about the incredible acting skill of Tom hardy in creating two very different characters in the Kray Twins. We talk about how wanted a lot more from this film. Plus how very funny it is. IMDB page
Martins pick is a one of Tom Hardy's earlier appearances, Bronson. On this one again we talk about how hilarious this film is. Plus how bizarre this film gets in a very good way. We talk about how brilliant the framing device is that Bronson himself is telling us this story on stage. IMDB page
As ever please enjoy.
Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England, if you enjoy this podcast please leave us a review and subscribe Welcome to our film versus film podcast this week Michael Caine and Ronald Cray this week I can't wait. We're only supposed to upload bloody doors this week. We're doing Buchan Tamati films and I can't do the accent very well. It's hard man to do Ronald grey let there be Carnage is out in cinemas Give me your fucking shot. That's a bit and of course, Tom Hardy stars in that film as Eddie Brock. So we'll be picking our favourite Tom Hardy films. And as ever, I have with me, the Mr. encyclopaedia man as always Mr. Boaz Dix, how are you saying? I'm doing fabulous so in fracking really? A lot of swearing in this one? I'm afraid. So if you don't like swearing, pick another fucking podcast. I think you don't like swearing fuck or you may know already. But we now have a buy me a coffee account. So if you like what we do, click on the link below in the show notes. And if you want to show us your appreciation, just buy us a coffee. And it'll be very much appreciated or whiskey. Or whiskey or pizza. I can change the icon to anything. Anything Boaz Should we go have your film first? Yep. What is your pick for Tom Hardy films? The legend who it's really addictive to try and do the Cockneys chalet legend. It's about the legend of the Cray toy. So why did you pick this one? Because I'd watched it before actually. So this is one of the few that I've done my research on? Oh, yeah. And it just sprung to mind. You said Tom Hardy films, you'd pick Bronson. Which, you know, I probably would have picked. And the only other one I could really think of that really stuck in my head was was legend. Okay, so you know, let's let's hoping that, you know, a double dose of Tom Hardy beats you will say Yeah, so what happens in like, legends? Yeah. So it's, it's about the infamous gangsters, the Kray twins, the scourge of London's East and East End. It's told from the perspective of Francis, who is Reggie crase girlfriend. Yeah. And just basically how she kind of entered into this world where they're, you know, up and coming gangsters that end up like ruling London, and then it does the whole fall thing as well. Yeah, it's a really interesting film. And, you know, both the Kray twins played by Tom Hardy, which I think is the first time this has happened before. So I think in a lot of all the other craze when adaptations, it's always been two different actors. So yeah, who usually look like, which is kind of funny. Yeah. I mean, who looks more like Tom Hardy than Tom. So what did you make of this one? Yeah, man, I like it. And what do you think? Um, yeah. I mean, he doesn't like Tom Hardy. He's such an incredible actor. So that's a big plus for this film. You know, I love like, how the film like, immerses you into the 60s. I kind of like the fact that a lot of the violence is, you know, the film doesn't shy away from it. It does have a very glossy look to this film. But they don't shy away from the violence, which I quite like. I do have some issues with it in terms of the writing, but we'll get into that. Yeah. So let's go straight into directing then. I actually love the scene when Reggie takes Francis Shea played by me browning out on a date in one of the clubs he owns and they get interrupted by some of his like business associates, and then there's something to deal with and Reggie like deals with it in a very gangster way. A gangster fashion then goes back to his date with Francis near the beginning of film, you know, the whole scene is done in one shot and I feel like you don't even notice it even if you're looking for it because it's not showy. It's not saying look at us we're doing what you know this in one shot no they're doing it you know this in a way because it's really efficient and really effective to let the actors do their thing and it's just a really cool way as well just to immerse yourself in the in this world really sorry I really like that bit and that was cool. It kind of reminds me a bit of you know like good yes the tracking shot through the kit you know threw into the club yesterday but in this one it's like tracking shot you know, and keeping on them all in one take their sat down and then he shot you know, it's it's still the same scene, and then he has to deal with something and then a little bit of violence. Yeah, it's not like shying away from the gangster stuff. Like this is who he is. He's kind of an animal. I love the little retaliation scene where the first like rival gang the Richardson's south of the river, like they run over Reggie Kray in this in their car. Then Paul Bettany, who plays Charlie richtigen is just having like a conversation with his friend in a cafe, that in boom, the craze drive through their cafe. And then Charlie still wants his food, which I found quite funny. And it's just a shame. Like we don't see Paul Bettany again. In the film, I was like, really? Yeah, I was actually gonna say that. I thought Paul Bettany was really funny and very charismatic, and his character was pretty damn awesome. And he was like, barely in there. But it would be like the main, you know, antagonist of the piece. And I forgot how good he was because I hadn't watched this film in quite a few years. And I kind of forgot that he was in it. And I'm like, Damn, he is really, really cool. I like the trial scene, where he's got like a judge's Yeah, this guy upside down, and they are torturing the fuck out of him. And he's like, Order in the court order in the court. And he's like, I don't know anything. You say, Your Honour. It gives a conduit further discussions. It's respectable. And he just comes down off of the judges chair and just starts beating the crap out and the electrolyte say it's the Cray Yeah, they like to hear. Like say it's the craziest like no leading the way. It's so funny. It's such a funny thing. And I thought he was having fun. It's a shame that he disappeared. Actually, even his his last scene was pretty funny where, you know, the cops raid his place, and he just wants to watch the foot. And they all kind of like, for God's sake. Don't come on. He's like, Yeah, it was a girl. Yeah, drag him away. Yeah, the cops just like watch it as he's watching as they're arresting him. That's quite funny. Oh, yeah, I like the fight. The crates have where there's a few like POV shots of them, like, slapping each other, you know, in the casino, and the camera goes from like side to side, you know, like, it's one of their heads. But I didn't think the movement was sharp enough, really, but the fight itself was pretty good. Especially when Ronnie accidentally like takes out layers. That was quite funny. But I think one of the most shocking things in the film is one you don't actually see fully and it's from Reggie not Ronnie, where Reggie drags Francis home in the rain out of the rain and drags her into the bedroom and Francis is screaming and and the Camera Cuts to outside the bedroom. And you know, it pulls out really slowly through the flat and you just hear the domestic violence it kind of feels worse the fact that he you can only hear it and you have to kind of imagine the rest you know, it's pretty dark. But I think quite well done with that. Really simple. Pull out with the camera. When Reggie will whatever goes mental on Jack Jack that Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was fucking nuts. Yeah, and that was that was pretty damn violent. You know? It's like the last violent act of the film. And that was pretty full on like, tries to shoot him and the gun jams and then he just grabs a knife and I like how the camera eyes up the knife. Like he's thinking about like Jack that you sound a bit and you see the lemon knife. So it's like setting it up. He grabs it and just starts shanking THE FUCK YEAH, Tom Hardy really goes for in that it's really quick and really shocking. Because it's all done at a Christmas party, isn't it? I think but Tom Hardy as Ron. He doesn't like flinch at all. He even looks curious about what's going on while everyone else is like screaming. And he asked like, why did you do that? And then Reggie, who he's really on the edge of crazy says you know, because I can't kill you. No matter how much I fucking want to. You know, it's such an intense moment for the climax of the film. Francis's suicide mainly, it was so slow and paced out. It's like she takes a tablet and you think she's always taking time and drink another tablet and the cameras sort of pushing on into her reflection and she's just taking more and more tablets and more and more glass all right yeah, she's she's gonna favourite shot for me. I like the very like simple directing of when Ronnie Kray shoots jords Cornell in the head when Ronnie enters the pub the camera just cuts to behind Ronnie shoulder follows him around the bar no one liner before he kills him just pulls the trigger no messing about it makes it a lot more shocking how simple it is because it's just it just happens with no suspense at all. It's just so brutal it's like yet he's dead in the camera turns to a face on of Ronnie after bloods everywhere. And he's just like, Who's laughing now? You fucking just walked out like God damn. Oh, and then it has the camera on the barmaid. He's like That's fucking runny. So yeah, that was that was a pretty well done done show. You got a favourite shot then. You know I would say like my favourite sequence actually now thinking about it is that guy being tortured upside down? You know where Ronnie has a fight with all those guards? Well beat the the absolute toss out. You know, I thought that was done pretty well. I mean, the energy in that like, that was fucking crazy. But yeah. So directing score for me. I think a lot of props has got go to the production of this as well. It looks amazing. Like the 60s style of it, the clothes, their hair, you know, everything is just immersed in 60s, which I really admire. It's pretty competently directed and when they do have like stylish flashes, they do really, really well. I don't think it's anything too special. This is actually a case of a film where I kind of wanted it to be longer as well. Because I do feel like this is probably more of a script thing. But there are some characters where I definitely wanted more of like Chris Robertson's character. He's like, as the lead detective he's like, hardly in it for me. Yeah, I think one of the problems is because it's, it seems to be filling in. I don't know exactly how much time but quite a few years. Yeah, you know, Francis's start and then their fall that it goes over quite a lot. It's like their stuff with rival gangs, you know, their friendship with the mafia, their casino business, their sex scandal, you know, Ronnie's murder of this him assaulting his wife just all this stuff. Like there's so much stuff in it. And I don't think you have long enough on these these characters. A lot of these characters got nothing to do with each other. Like the detective after him. It's got nothing to do with the rival gangs, the mafia. So you have like these self contained scenes and they're quite short. So I think maybe I think what they either should have done is made this film a lot longer. So that you have more time with these storylines. Yeah, either altered history basically and actually made them sort of converged you know what I mean? So it seems like you know, it's all in one thing, or alternatively just focus on it in a shorter timeframe. Just like one storyline. Yeah, I think I agree. Certainly with the scenes with the craze that you know, the important moments in history with the craze they do really, really well I think so. I think score I'll go 7.8 For me, how about you sir? I do agree with you. I like the style of it. I like especially the the Longshots the long takes and and the costume design and everything, and I think they did a very good job of casting and stuff. I'm gonna go and eight. Okay. Screenplay then. One thing I do love about this film, it is really funny at times, just like the creative swearing as well, which is great, but I think certainly my favourite character is Ron grey. Yeah, without a doubt, I love the scene where Ron is expecting a shoe out and notice is one of the rival gang members has a pipe in his hand and the guy says it's a fucking tool. And Ron says, No, it's not. It's a fucking rolling pin. What are you Fanny? cranek What are you gonna do with that? Are you gonna bake me a cake? You're gonna sing me a song. Watch me blow out my fucking candles. He goes on and on. But it just shows you he's just gagging for violence. Yeah, I came here for a shoot out with fucking guns like real man. A shoot out like a weapon. But he wants you know the violence to be done properly. But of course it was just a trick so wrong can come back into the bar. And surprise them when and then when Reggie says now before we start. I got a little joke for you. You'll love this one. paranoid schizophrenic walks into a bar. Bosh? Yeah, it comes in with a pair of hammers. Yeah, that was pretty cool. In I really liked it. I just feel like the scene was a bit too theatrical for me a bit too high risk. Maybe they knew they wouldn't have any guns. I don't know. But it was fun, but I didn't entirely buy it. Yeah. It was still fun. Yeah, I think there are a lot of moments which seem way too unbelievable to have actually happen. Yeah, I'm not sure if they did, but you know, I like all of what was it Ronnie stuff about a no good 50,000 for a new group. I want to build a city in Nigeria. You know, shout outs to Nigeria? Yeah, for the kid. Yeah. For a cage. Do you know what a new Gu means? It means utopia. Utopia means nowhere. With this money. I can make it somewhere. He's fucking brilliant. But Ron, like the new goose in Nigeria. Nigeria is in Africa. It's really far away. You're gonna go there. Yeah, I don't hear. It's great. That which made me laugh out loud. There's a great bit where they're all in the practically empty Casino. And businesses really slow because Reggie has been in prison for a spell, and David's Willis's character. Leslie Payne is talking to his people and saying, All I'm saying all I'm saying is crime is still a business you need a public relations department and we've got Joseph Goebbels is looking at them from across the room and ask less what he asked less to lip read lip read what they're saying. And, and less says I'm struggling but I think he's saying something about gobbles or no balls. And then he says, x very strange. It's so funny. It was really funny. I think you could you can list a lot of like, Ronnie's like very weird. One line. Yeah. Do you remember that bit where they do a deal with the mafia? And he says, you know, you can come to Vegas. We get you all the girls you like and he's like, I like boys. He's like, you know, Italians? Greeks. I'm not prejudiced. I've had a negro. He goes I went up to he he like a fucking Brown. That's my favourite. It's just like what? Yeah, that's that's my favourite line actually. Yeah, he says because I happened to have a negro one. And I hate who I bent up like oppression. I really fucking like speak Italian. Italian is like Gina, not a lot of guys would admit that. You guys got Bo. There's lots of funny lines. Now the start from Reggie. The cops in the car. Where do you take a turd in there? I suppose just hold in. Don't you give Ron your fucking sausage. When Ron is apologising to Francis, he says, I'm truly very sorry. The club's very very empty a bit like you as fuck or when it apart for my brother's cock? Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. Like he grew up. He grew up in that fight. He grabbed Reggie balls like really hard. He's, like, ever mess with a man's balls, mate. Yeah, it's crazy. She looks like a budgie in that dress country. One thing I didn't like about this film. And I had a major problem with actually is, you know, I like this film a lot. But the voiceovers explaining what's happening and filling in the gaps kind of pissed me off at the end of this watching air. For me, it's just quite lazy. Just show me what's happening with the narrative of the film. You know, if the film has to be three hours long, I don't care like like you were saying. If there's lots of fill in, make it three hours. I'll watch it if it's compelling enough. Just don't tell me what's going on. If I want that. I'll listen to an audiobook. One example, which you've mentioned, which is a great shot, which I really like. Which really annoyed me was when Francis is committing suicide, like you said, but you know, she's taking these pills one by one and you have a really nice low push in with this really nice emotional music. But for me, that's all you need. We know exactly what she's doing. And you don't need the voiceover with it. Yeah, exactly. The the narrator of this entire thing is Francis and she always types in with you know, what's happening or context and all this other stuff, but I kind of agree like one I don't think it's necessary for this film. Like it really isn't like some of it. She's really kind of explaining. That's obvious. And as you said, the rest of it could just be shown. I think the only reason they did it was to have this sort of shocking moment and I put it in air quotes shocking that the narrator dies at some point in the film. Yeah. You know, which doesn't tend to happen if there's a character in the writing. Yeah, you know, he makes it to the end. And she even does that in a line. It's like after she commit suicide, I bet you'd expect you know, I must have survived that attempt, because how am I doing it? But you know, I don't know. You know, no, I died. Yeah, she keeps blabbering on after it. I'm just like, even even death will not stop. It will not shut her up. She will continue to narrate the crazies lives. Obviously the crazy not going to heaven, but it's probably a good thing because she'd be there. Yes, writing everything. You got a favourite line? Yeah, there's so much I would say like, almost everything that Ron says. One of my favourite lines. I'm trying to think of like lines that were really good. That weren't funny enough, just like, because, you know, there are parts where, you know, it's very fucking serious. Well, that pay at the end when, after he kills, check the hat. That was quite powerful. Yeah. And you just touched on that line before. But yeah, that's a good line, where he's like, you know, why did you do that? And it's like, because I can't fucking kill you. As much as I want to hear. I thought that that is a really good line score. For me. The characters really well realised. For me, I kind of this is an example of the film where I wanted it to be longer, not shorter, but it's really funny as well. Just really great humour. So I'll go like 7.6. How would you say? Yeah, no, I again, I completely agree. And there are great lines throughout this film. And I like the the overall story, but I do agree with every criticism. It's trying to pack way too much into the film. It needed to be longer. I do I agree with you didn't need the voiceover. I might be harsher on it. I'm going to be harsh on it just so unfair. Yeah, I'll give it a 7.4. And again, I just feel like Christopher Nicholson's character. It's just such a waste. It's such a great character. Yeah, he's he's just because it's kind of frustrating. Lee stroke. That was a good thing. I really liked their talk, because it's one of the few talks that they had him in and Reggie, and you know, before they take a picture of him, and you know how to drop the case, that was clever, that was really clever. So they look like friends. So it's like, dude, but I like that whole talk where Christopher Eccleston is like, you know, he's like, why are you here? And he goes, You know, I just want to see the difference between you and me. Because, well, what's the difference between me and you? It's like, we were both poor. We were both in rough neighbourhoods, but I didn't have to resort to being a fucking criminal. Yeah. He's like, Well, you decided to be a cop though. And, you know, lock up your own people. And I just like that back and forth. It's like, Man, how cool would that have been? If that was scattered through our film? Do you know what I mean? This character just goes missing at the end. It's just it's a shame for me acting then. This is all about Tom Hardy. Let's not beat around the bush. Yeah, so So who do you prefer Tom Hardy or Tom Hardy? I prefer Tom Hardy actually, I think he's great. I think I'd go with Tom Hardy. Yeah, I'm sorry to disagree with Tom. Well, Tom Hardy is a lot fucking better, right? Just sharp. But Tom Hardy as Ronnie Kray is amazing. Because pretty much every scene he's in you. You have this uncomfortable feeling that he's gonna fuck someone at any moment. Yeah. It's really intense stuff. Because in his performance and in his eyes, he definitely because he, you know, his eyebrows are very, like, straight and down by his eyes. And just like you do feel like he's just doesn't understand what that's you know, what's going on sometimes? What's so interesting about his character, he does feel very unsure of himself. And you know, I mean, yeah, definitely. Like, he seems like a child. Yeah, definitely. He's definitely not suited for this and doesn't really understand what's going on. But the look that he has is just like this dead cold. It's like his face is carved of stone, you know, you've got no idea what's going on in there. And there are scenes where you're like, is he gonna crack wise? Or is he gonna like walk in hurt someone, he's gonna kill someone. I remember actually, like this perfectly exemplifies his attitude, like several scenes. So I'm just gonna go over them but one where he was talking about their meeting with the mafia and again, he just looks you know, dead eyed into the distance when they're talking about, you know, we should do deals with the mafia, and he's like, fuck it. Just like, he's like, fuck are you go? Do you know what we should do? I don't like this rage. We should cut them into fucking pieces, and send them back, you know, to America. And then they have the meeting and you think, is he gonna do that at any point in the meeting, but he doesn't. And then what was it another scene? The one where he decides to kill that guy pain day before so yeah, there's when he decides to kill George pain. I'd like to win actually, he just went mental on George, like, cuz he goes mental on him from time to time, but he never roughed him up. But he wants to kill him. He just doesn't like it. But when they're talking about all the success that they've had, and he just hit, I think he punches him hard. Yeah, he hits him with something hard. And he's bleeding. And he's just like, throwing stuff at him. And he's like, you know, we should kill him. He knows too much about us, you know, and then registers that Well, everybody is about you know, about us, you know, and that's what fucks him over in the end, because, you know, that failed attempt makes pain like, you know, I think that's what's quite great about the writing actually, is the fact that Ronnie needs Reggie so much. You know, Reggie is the only one Ron can trust. Literally no one else around him. He doesn't you know, he doesn't trust anyone around him apart from Reggie. Oh, yeah. Do you remember when he got up on the stage? I thought that was hilarious. blowing the trumpet and then yeah. And then he's like, how many letters are in? So all of you do. Yeah. And when he has that little dance in the Christmas party, or Oh, yeah. And the new it goes? Shopping Sheet or whatever. That was brilliant. But there's a great little scene after they have a fight where Ron is on the floor. And Ron asked Reggie for a hand up and Raji. Raji for me, he pulls him down. Is that other twin that was left out of the film? The third one? Reggie, Ronnie and right. Yeah. He was the good cry. Yeah. But Ron asked Reggie for a hand up and Ron Paul's in down and you're like, Oh, shit. He's gonna start again. But no, Ron says I'm very fragile. repeatedly. And Ron is showing his like very vulnerable side and certainly in this film. Ron needs Reggie more than Reggie needs Ron for sure. In this Yeah. And I do I do like that as well. Because they close in the camera closes in on on his his fingers as they kind of lock by his neck and then kind of go soft. So you know. So he's like, you know? And I like that. It's like, you know, these brothers have a connection. They do need each other. And it's like, and that's what Francis just cannot understand. It's like, you got to leave your brother and all this crazy criminal stuff. But he's like, just, he needs me. I need him. Ron needs Reggie more than Reggie needs, Ron. And I think Ron knows that. And you get this very subtle anger with Ron, but you see this very? You see more vulnerability there, especially from that scene on I think so my favourite performances. Certainly. Tom Hardy as Ron for me. How about you? Yeah, I agree. wholeheartedly. Yeah. I think if he was in it more, I would give a, you know, much closer to second to Paul Bettany. Yeah, yeah, it's great. So score for me for acting. Yeah, it's really, really good. From Tom Hardy to play two different characters with the stunt guy as well. You know, the the stand ins to work with that. That's really impressive. To go that route in this film, and I think it's great because you kind of forget that played by the same man. Yeah, just how very different is because there's loads of scenes where it's just those two in the scene, so he has to kind of, you know, do both parts at different stages of the shoot. And must be pretty difficult. So I'm going to go like, a nine. I think I'll go pretty high, just because of Tom Hardy. Yeah, 9.3 or something. Okay, cool. I think he does a tremendous job of having to fully realise amazing characters, who you know, are acted superbly, but are so different from one another. And as you said, he basically shares so many scenes with him. So it's very strange, right, let's add up the scores then for legend. I didn't get 49.1. Right, my film then, is Bronson. One of his earlier films, I would say, again, it's kind of another bow pick other films in contention. I was tempted to pick warrior. That's a really good film. With Joel Edgerton, I think yeah, Warrior was really good film lawless because hadn't seen it, but we had picked a lot of gangster films recently. So I was like in let's leave gangster films for now. We could have picked Mad Max for your Fury Road, but we've already picked that because of we've covered it already in post apocalyptic films. He's done a lot of great work in TV as well, like taboo and Peaky Blinders is growing. I'm a big fan of Nicolas Winding Refn and naturally with him, you either love his work or you absolutely hate his work. I am certainly someone who loves his work. I remember like When the reviews came out for only God forgives It was either a five star reviews or a one star review for that film no in between Yeah, yeah, there's no in between with with Nicolas Winding ref and this is certainly no exception. It really does some really weird and out there things. Yeah. So what happens in Bronson? Well, again, it's another like, biopic type of story. But as I'll explain in screenplay, it's very much a biopic as if Bronson himself was telling you. Well, he's actually called Michael Peterson. In real life as a young man, he gets married in Luton, and He robs a post office and get sentence for seven years in prison. But as he says he had a calling. And his calling is that he always wanted to be famous, but you're not really into anything that would typically make you famous. So he basically becomes the most violent prisoner in British history. Yeah. And he goes from all these different prisons as a spell in a mental hospital. He gets out at one stage and then goes back into prison. Yeah, it just kind of follows his life through all these prisons, really. And all the different characters he meets along the way. And they kind of touch on his like artwork and his artistic stuff at the end. Which is really, really out there. So yeah, that's the film really, what did you make of this one then, but yeah, man, I love this film. I would say it's a masterpiece. Really? Yeah. I wouldn't go that far. I think it is. I think it's a really good film. Have you seen any Nicholas one in reference ever films? Probably not nicely. He did like drive. I need God forgive Neon Demon. No, annoyingly is one of these people that thinks like cinema is dead now. So he hasn't made a film in a while. Which is really a real shame. Be I really liked this film as well. There are some issues for me directing then I found the opening sequence great where it establishes that this film is going to be a very like stylized film of his life. You know, Tom Hardy is talking directly to the audience breaking the fourth wall saying he's he's always had a calling for something. And you have these great sequence of closeup shots, then you see Tom Hardy in this very, like dark age, you know, it's all red and black and really high contrast look to he's covered in like oil, these prison guards come into his cell and they all have a fight, you know, the music of the walker Brothers is playing with no sound effects. You know, the performance plus the style of the scene is going to express what this character is, is going to be like the rest of the film, you know, a very violent in centric. As I kind of said in the plot, you know, this film very much plays out like how Nicolas Winding Refn the director thinks Bronson would do a biopic of himself. You know, there's this very like stereotypical montage scene of his fame being like a violent prisoner hitting like the papers in this very comic book style. You know, like he's a superhero. You know, there's these really like pulpy policy shots, you know, and blood, bloody images, freeze frames on on action that he was taking. Yeah, like punching him in the face getting hit. I like the very inexplicable stuff, basically in bronze instead of him telling his story. So there's two ways that he narrates his story. One is it in a in a just a black background. But the other more fun way is on a stage with a holy these people and he's dressed up like, like a mime. That was great. I love those scenes. There's a great scene near the end with Phil played by James Lance, where he believes in his art you know, and he touches his foot and says, You are finally going to get what you've always wanted. And then Bronson's like what do you know about what I fucking won? And he looks away and then slowly turns his head back to look at Phil to completely intimidate him who's like frozen looking sheets get analysis, and Bronson asked like what happened to my tea feel? And then I love like the simple directing after that. Just a simple close up on Phil with a like slight Lee low angle of him making tea. And in the background, Tom Hardy just walks right behind him out of sight. And as soon as you can't see him, you know he's gonna kill him. Well, at least take him out. I love because he gets a hand on his on his mouth, on his nose. Are and then drags him out. And then it goes into him on stage and everybody laughing and clapping and at that time, and then I've really liked that follow up scene. I think that whole sequence is good but and even with the switch to him explaining the story on stage, because it keeps doing that, you're gonna have bits he thinks, kind of hilarious or ridiculous or sad. Then the audience chime in, and he'll talk about his feelings on the matter. But I like that because when that scene of him eating the the art director out of shot, and everybody laughs because it's quite funny, and it's clapping, laughing. And then all the laughter stops, the clapping stops. And he's on stage. He doesn't say a goddamn word. He just turns around, and just goes to the back of the stage, you know, just leaves. And I feel like to me that that was coupled with a scene that was hilarious. Followed by one way like, oh, like there was a gravity to that. It's like, usually He's so funny on this stage in his mind, but this time, he's like, There's nothing funny about this. This is distressing. Yeah, it's very bizarre. I thought that entire sequence and then the one afterwards, it's just kind of a roller coaster. Ah, hilarious to what the hell? Oh, yeah, there's a lot of like, different emotions, from like, laughter to shock value to like, What the fuck is going on? Certainly, the end is just like, What the hell but it's really like well done. There's a great shot where Bronson has covered himself in black paint. And is standing with his back to camera in like this statuesque position on the stairs. But what's great about his about it is it kind of reminded me of a Francis Bacon painting, where some of the background of the shot is in complete shadow and darkness. So his lower back is kind of like merging with the background. Not really sure where they were going with with that, but it looks really good. You know, very interesting, as Phil would say. Then the next scene is really bizarre where you see his Bronson again, he's got a top hat on with a bright pink puppet with a weird grin on it. Yeah. You know, Phil is tied up with this blue bank blanket over his head. And then he takes the blanket off and painting his face. Yeah, yeah. He paints his own face. Bronson's face on the face, and puts an apple in his mouth. And I like the tears like they've got streams of tears. Yeah. On the paint from the art teacher. That's really good. Yeah. It's like Bronson is channelling his like his own insanity into this avant garde art. Yeah. Where like, nothing makes sense for him, I guess. Yeah. There's there's a lot of violence in this film, like physical like, punch ups, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Then after that, like loads of guards come in and try and take him out. Yeah. And you've got like this epic slomo of just him taking on so many guards, to the classical music that he requested, blaring, and he's kicking the crap out of them. And then they just grab him and go to town on him as like the last shot in in the film. Oh, you know, it's not the last shot. But the last shot of Bronson is him just in absolute agony is covered in blood. And he's in a very small cage, inside a small room inside a prison. That was pretty crazy. Just moaning to him. When he leaves prison, and he works as a fighter. There are several scenes I like about that. So when I was saying like the the montage scene of him taking on loads and loads of fighters over a long period of time, very kind of strange sort of ominous music. I don't know. It's a very kind of low beat sort of really weird stuff. And that was pretty cool. And then it ended with like him fighting a dog. Do you see that? Cut off where they unleashed a dog on him and, and he's like, wow, like that, like roar? Yeah. And then it cuts to you know, he's with this girl. And that whole montage of just the crazy shit that he got up to that was, that was pretty insane. I think my favourite shot is in the mental hospital, which isn't self indulgent at all. When Bronson is in the mental hospital and it's a very like simple tracking chart on a new character left of screen as he's walking across this big room with all the mentally ill people in it. And the camera goes right past Bronson in the foreground, sitting in a chair, all drugged up. The character we're following turns round and then sits next to him and talks to him about you know, it's all fake. But Tom Hardy's performance is amazing as he starts straining every inch of himself and he's got like this fluid coming out of his mouth and again, just like really disgusting. It's like he's going to explode or something. Now Mr. taken a lot of stamina to get to that place, but yeah, just that shot. The camera just goes straight past him in the beginning. I was like, Okay, that's interesting. I think one of my favourite bits was when he's on stage having a conversation with himself about after a call. Yeah, cuz he's attempt to even the scene with the attempted murder of that man that was, that was pretty crazy. I've just held low key it was like he strangles him and then it pushes outwards the camera, as he's like flailing on the ground. And all the other people are just, you know, there's this like clapping. There's no intensity to it, as he's just choking the fuck out of this guy. But then I like the scene after after that. I just thought it was really amusing. And just even how it's done with him half painted as a nurse and himself. Because he's like, here's how the conversation went. Yeah, back away. And well, it was really not weird, but just like really well done. I thought it was cool. It was very bizarre, but I thought I'd never really seen anything like that. Yeah, just great way to like move the story along, you know, with exposition Yeah, but you do certainly get the sense that like, Bronson himself is playing the female character, not Tom Hardy playing the female character, if that makes sense. Yeah, he's channelling Bronson playing the female character if you know, yeah, directing score bar is what you're going for knowing point 1.1 That is very high. Yeah, yeah. There's another thing I didn't mention is I really liked the scene when he was really into his art. And the art teacher said, you know, try and unlock something that you won't find here. And he's drawing all this weird shit. And then you have this this scene of basically animated his year he's weird drawings. Like they're all animated very McCobb by God, that was strange. It's like people with several heads and you know, flying Cox. And it's just, it was so trippy. It was like, you know, hawks with wings. And just all this weird shit. You're like, What the hell, but that it's all animated and moving along. And then even how that transitions to him walking in the these walking along, and they still got the animation with the live action. That was really good. I wanted more of that. Yeah, it was a shame. It was just very fleeting. Yeah, that it was only in one scene. That was pretty freaky. I wasn't expecting directing the score, emotional go that high. I think we've theatre stuff that's really inventive. And I really like that. And I kind of wanted more of that later on in the film, they kind of like the first 40 minutes, you get a lot of that, then in the second 45 minutes, you don't get much of it, which is a shame. So I'll go like eight point A, I think, because there are two ways that they're delivering exposition here, both with Charlie Bronson as narration one in, as I said, a black background. And that keeps coming in here from time to time. And on stage. I wish they just picked one I would have I would have been just the stage. I think the stage stuff I have never seen a narration like that screenplay, then I've we've kind of touched on already, you know, like, actually, how Bronson is actually telling this story. To us. You know, on stage, as you said, it's kind of set up like this one man show. And what's really interesting about the fact that it's put on stage is that he's telling us this story to these middle aged white men in all these black ties, which is kind of like the audience that he wants to like, rub their faces in it when he's telling them this story, because there is moments where like someone heckles at him and, you know, jabs? Yeah, no, that was a really good scene, where, what was it, I'm going to be famous, and somebody says, For what, and he goes, Oh, boy, you know, he literally don't want to be locked in with me sunshine. And there's a great moment where Bronson first goes into prison, and he starts crying with the back to camera and then cut to him back on stage, like covered in black and white makeup, you know, in a suit like surprise. Yeah, like that with his hands on his face. And it's like, yeah, you know, and he says, I've always fancied myself as a bit of a comedian, but it's not funny. But I think it's intentionally not funny because it's Bronson telling the joke, which he thinks it's funny, you know, they're playing around with the fact that he might be a bit of a softer you, but obviously, of course, he's definitely not. And definitely wasn't, you know. So I like that. The fact that Bronson is kind of telling a bad joke in the script, because there's a lot of compilations like a lot of montage is yeah, one montage I've completely forgot about but when he was talking about like his life up to that point, and even as a kid, he's just beating the shit out of people. Remember, he like threw a chair at a teacher and stuff like some officers go to just talk to him and he just beats the crap out of them. Yeah, he's never like a really great guy. I also find it Funny the in this world of Bronson's, there are some very strange people, like his uncle is bizarre, you know, when he went to see his uncle and there's, like all these women and guys dressed as a woman, and it's played some really weird music and stuff, they give him a drink and he just looked awkward as fuck. He's like, he's got a secret suitcase. He's like, you can stay here, then the girl is rubbing her hand on his leg. And his uncle is also rubbing his hand on his leg. Like, a dressing gown. Like that was there's some very, very strange people I like also his fight promoter. He was fucking hilarious. You know, I like those scenes. But I do feel like the film did lose a bit of momentum when he does get a prison the first time. Yeah, you know, the pacing does slow down a lot. And I feel like they hold on to some of those scenes a bit too long, and you lose some of the intensity. And you lose a lot of as I was kind of saying you kind of lose a lot of the creative style as well. Like, there's no theatre stuff in this part of the film, which is a shame. You know, there is some funny stuff, but I think they could have cut a little bit of those scenes. Yeah. Personally, yeah, I kind of agree with you most of the story. And like most of you know, anything that kind of properly happened is in the prisons. And you know, that's kind of what you're there to see his time in prison. And yeah, really, that that small period outside is kind of inconsequential, like after the, the very weird, like avant garde stuff, you get these facts, like pretty much near the end, you get these facts about Bronson that is, you know, Britain's most famous prisoner, then you have this scene, like, as you described, when he's just in this key, this really small cage, and it's kind of like out, it's out of a horror film, where again, he's like butt naked, and he's got a lot of bladder over him, and the camera kind of pulls out slowly. And the film just ends for me. And I did get the sense that he didn't know how to end the film. You know, some people have described that this is Monday like clockwork orange, which it isn't, whatsoever, you know, Clockwork Orange is a masterpiece. In my opinion, with this, it kind of left me a little bit cold at the end might, you know, my opinion of him didn't change for the film. It just feels like a collection of scenes in the end. And the first 40 minutes is amazing in this film, the second 40 Not so much. I think this is where I kind of deviate from you. I suppose I like it. I think a lot more than you did. And yeah, you know, I would even say the last half I quite liked. You know, is it as good as the beginning? I'm not sure. But there are some very interesting choices. I think there's still some very good directing. And I don't think this story necessarily has to have a point like, or that you have to change your mind about him. I think the way he's kind of presented is he's just a very disturbed individual who is very violent, and yeah, nothing changes for him. There is no character. I think the closest you get to a character arc of some sort of redemption is through his art. He quite likes his art. But the fact that it makes the the guards happy, it's like fuck you, you know, that's the least thing I want to do. So he just regresses goes back to being just you know, doing what he does just being violent. There's no lessons learned. And the fact that he's still in prison still, you know, God knows how long he's been there he hasn't changed you know, after all this time. So I think it's just a window of yeah, this is what this guy is like he's just violent as far as anything and how it ends it doesn't end because he's not dead with Nicholas one in reference work with maybe the exception of Dr. I've not seen Valhalla Rising but they're not particularly accessible to like mainstream audiences. And I think with this I think throughout the film that the deeper you go into this film and the further you go to the end, it becomes less and less accessible and less and less comprehensive on like what with a storytelling it becomes even more like avant garde with with Bronson's art itself. And I think it's kind of like they're trying to delve into Bronson's mind like deeper and deeper into this story until there's like you're completely lost into his mind at the end. If you're not I mean, maybe that's what they were going for the war they visually can do is just have Bronson in this cage full of bloods covered in blood, you know, which reflecting on it maybe that was kind of like the only way they could do it really ended, I guess. And I think, you know, maybe they they kind of stopped on on like, the exposition scenes because it's like, it feels like you can read him less and less and he just becomes more quiet, more reserved, and, and then they don't even Have those exposition things anymore? I think maybe it's just it gets you used to knowing what's in his mind. And to a certain point, then it's like, nobody's got a clue what's in his brain, you know, not even you, you know, kind of get lost in the film. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. With all the avant garde stuff. So I think thinking about it a bit more, maybe. Yeah, that was the kind of a really interesting way to go and quite bold, I guess. But certainly, it's not going to be to everyone's taste. Which I like, though, I do agree with you. It doesn't have like any sort of satisfying resolution, or good ending, as it were, or anything. Like, it just peters out, and it sort of just dissipates. It's like it's gone. I love the bit in the script, where he's comparing prisons to hotel suites. Yeah, that was brilliant. So and as I said before, there are a lot of montage is in the film. And I like that the the speech that he's giving copy coupled with a montage of all the prisons he's visited. My particular favourite is where he's like, say, I wouldn't recommend this state. That was actually really quite nice, you know? The food in this place was good. And I like how he's just beaten to fuck with a straitjacket and they put the food through the door. Just like spritz of blood on it. Yeah. So one scene I also quite like is where he takes the library and hostage. Escape funny who's giving him his books. And then he just, like, locks the door. And then he's like, I got him. I'm gonna break his fucking neck. And then he gets a phone call from the warden. And he's like, you know, hello, you know? And he's like, Well, what do you want as well? What have you got? Well, that's entirely up to you in it. Yeah, fuck off. I just like he hasn't even thought this through like, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that scene also cuz he gets naked and he puts on his wall pain before he beats the fuck out of everybody gets the librarian to he's like you get my back do my back and my art not in my art you fucking faggot. Yeah, I love that. I love cuz it was also a very strange scene because this is the first time I've seen that is a prosthetic is it like that is Oh, that is definitely is Bronson. I was gonna say Tom Hardy hardy but it's more like he's softy. It's a very placid penis. Yeah, it's an extraordinary piece of acting that he's trapped in a prison guard in his cell and he decides to strip down naked and he gets a prison guard to rub grease on his back and it's and he starts shouting quicker. Quiet. Sit down in a corner. Don't move. Yeah, that was good. It's just so funny and scary at the same time because Tom Hardy is just absolutely going for it big time. It's so intense and unbelievable. And I was just like what is happening? I turned I think that might be one of my favourite scenes. It's not my favourites. Yeah, I'm not sure much beats that line. But there's some other ones Irene and I got hitched. It was all right. Take these pills and then bronze and says stick them up. My fucking Luton is where it's at. Oh yeah, that was funny. Oh no cuz he has a conversation with someone on the train or something like what you doing is I'm going to go kill the queen. It's like she's like well you're off to London. No, then it's like now Luton tour it's shot at Luton it's like what the hell? I can't remember his name now but the the his fight promoter when he gets out he's like, Well, fuck me inside out. Come in my dear. You're just in time for cocktail. Was that his uncle Cartman? Oh, yeah, that was his uncle. Yeah. Yeah, no, he's fight promote. Like he has one of my favourite lines. He I think probably where he gets him his first fight. And he beats up the guy and then takes a piss on him. And then at the end, they're outside in a field and Bronson's like 20 quid I just gave you ah, there. You pissed on a tramp? You know? You pissed? Yeah, that was it. You pistol a gypsy in the middle of fucking nowhere. Sadly the hottest ticket in town darling. Yeah, that's my favourite line. Nobody gives a toss about Charlton Heston the manager which I think is really harsh. I'm like what's wrong? I might miss something. Don't call the police for 10 minutes 15 minutes. Happy Christmas. Yeah, that's funny. Sit down. Not they're the fucking cars that you Oh, you got a favourite then? Or have you said yours already? I think I might. It might be the Gypsy one screenplay score what you're going for man? The screenplay was amusing as fuck, I do kind of understand what you mean where you say, like, sort of loses momentum and it goes a bit crazy. To me. I think it going crazy sort of makes sense. He's fucking crazy. And the less sense it makes thematically and story wise, I think. Yeah, fine. Fuck it. You know, I also go pretty high, because I just quite like it. Maybe I'll go 9.1 I certainly won't go as high as that. I don't think Yeah, it's really funny and just really like, Whoa, what the hell is happening at times, which I really admire. It's just that middle bit in the film, which, after the first 40 minutes is so good, and then it just takes a real down step and in momentum, which is a real shame for me. Yeah. Would you say when he kind of goes to Luton, or that yeah, pretty much, which is a shame. And then I kind of do like the boldness of where it goes when he gets back into prison. And with all the art stuff, it's really, really interesting. And I think you certainly can read that in a lot of different ways. You know, and then it just ends which, on thinking about it a bit more is really interesting. So as Phil would say, yeah, so I would go 8.4 Hoving. Yeah, actually, okay, I'll change. I'll actually change that from a nine. Okay. 9.1 I think you're right is probably a bit too high, but I will still do it. High. 8.7. Okay, acting then the film has one of the most disgusting scenes I've ever seen in a movie. Oh, I know. Exactly. Is it the first day at the mental asylum? Yeah. Oh, my God, when Bronson has been moved to the funny farm as he calls it, and Bronson just watches a guy take a shit in the garden. That was horrible. You know, I was eating. I was eating a burger as that was happening. And I immediately put that in the trash. I don't want to eat anymore. Yeah, he takes a shit in his hand, and then covers his face in the ship. Like really slowly as well. Yeah. That's what makes it so horrible to watch. Because not only do they have the bravery to show something like that, but to make it feel so long. It's incredible. It's so horrible. Yeah. Yeah. I never want to see that. So you think yeah, that was a really disgusting scene. Could have been worse. It could have been eating chocolate mousse. Yeah, but yeah, no, that was a really fucked up scene or a Mars bar. In the mental hospital, it's really funny when all these mentally ill people are dancing to it's a sin by the petrol points. And Tom Hardy is moving like a zombie through the crowd. And again, it's like, I think it's one of these situations in a film where the film is kind of daring you to laugh at this. And unfortunately, I did laugh. He can't help. I like cuz also like he's trying to dance. Because you see him just kind of shamble in because he say drugs so drugged up, he can barely move. And then he tries to just walk to the door, and the guards are like, like moving fucky turns. The art teacher was very strange, like, you know, he's Spanish words just coming out of nowhere and his very lively hand movements. The warden was kind of weird. He kind of reminded me of like, you know, he's just like a substitute teacher or something like, yeah, yeah. Favourite performance? tamani I think Oh, yeah. Yeah, without doubt, I think even like an unsung good actor is the strange guy that he almost tried to kill. Like, he was creepy. He was really creepy. You know? Is that the the the mental patient who you said had that? Oh, yeah. When he walked past him, and he talked to him. He's very weird. And then even before he was gonna kill him, he's like, looking over him in like, naughty naughty and all this shit. Like he was I think he was a really good actor for the very simple role he had. I think he really played that damn well, I you know, he should get a bigger part on something died very quickly. So yeah, acting What will I do with acting? I'm gonna go 8.8 Yeah, I think I might go the same actually. 8.8 So gave nine for legend, raise paying two paths. And also the commitment to actually like build his body up as well. Yeah, man, he got really big. Alright, let's add up the schools and for brunch. Bronson gets 52.6 so Bronson is our winner for this week. Whereas legend only got 49.1 So fairly tight. I think the right film one I mean, legends still really good. Legend is good. I do like Legend. I would happily put that on. Yeah. You know, I had fun when I watched it. I think it was one of the cases of when you told me to pick. Tom Hardy films I would have picked right And then you're already taken out next week then as finally, finally, no time to die is hitting cinemas around the world. So of course we'll be having a look at our favourite James Bond films. Again if you want to show your appreciation for the podcast and say a big thank you just have a look at our show notes below and click on the link of buy me a coffee and just buy us a coffee to say thanks. Not much at all. But it will be fully appreciated. As always ballers you've been fucking brilliant. You've been by pi. Give me your fucking sausage. That sounded really good next time but expect a fucking shootout. Yeah, like a Western. We need to do a Western one. Western Yeah. All right. Bye. Bye. That's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like to find out more about the podcast or suggest future topics for us to discuss related to upcoming releases. Let us know on Instagram at film versus film podcast and on Twitter at FPF underscore podcast. Remember, please subscribe pod signing off