Film vs Film Podcast

Batman Films - Batman Returns vs Batman & Robin, with the Film Me In Podcast

March 12, 2022 Martin Harries Episode 61
Film vs Film Podcast
Batman Films - Batman Returns vs Batman & Robin, with the Film Me In Podcast
Show Notes Transcript

This week on this whopper of a bat pod as, the hugely anticipated, The Batman hits cinemas, we will be of course talking Batman films. But, with an added twist, we are joined by our very first guests Xander Lang-Whiston and David French from the Film Me In podcast. As we have guests, Martin will be teaming up with Boaz to take on the Film Me In podcast. 

Before you click play, Boaz was unable to upload his audio so we had to use the internet backup. So his audio might sound a bit crackly at times. We apologise for this as its not up to our high standards that you expect, but we hope you still enjoy it. 

Warning we will be talking SPOILERS.

Martin and Boaz's choice for this week is arguably Tim Burtons best Batman film, Batman Returns. On this one, we talk about the very overtly sexual nature of this film at times and how horrible the Penguin is. We also talk about why Michelle Pfeiffer is the best Cat Women. Plus a penguin theory in relation to Back to the future. IMDB page

Film Me In's choice for this week, is well, in the opposite end of Batman quality, Batman & Robin. We talk, terrible acting, ice logic with cigars. We talk a Robin that lives up to his real name, a depressed Batman, a big bloke that just says one word, sexy pink gurillas (for one), ice puns and of course no Batman & Robin discussion is complete without, bat nipples. IMDB page


As ever please enjoy, this ones a corker! 

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Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England, if you enjoy this podcast please leave us a review and subscribe Hello Potter Rooney's this week on the film versus film podcast as the Batman is in cinemas right now. And of course we'll be talking Batman films and this week we have guests for the first time from the film me in podcast. David and Xander. How are you? Hello? Hello. Yeah, we're doing okay. We're very excited to be here. It's been a long time in the making. Yeah, awesome. Okay. Cool. And of course, I'm joined by a man where you should not tell him lies. The duct tape man himself. How are you? Yeah, I'm fine. Duct tape. The duct tape man. I'm gonna use duct tape on me. I feel like there's a story here. There's a story here with the tape on, you know, read Love from this new film. Oh. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. I thought you'd like take someone off or something. Yeah, exactly. Did we kill someone? You know? Are you like, get into it? You got to keep that secret. So what do we make of this new film? Are we excited? trepidatious. What do we think? Yes. So incredibly excited. And I have tickets for the IMAX. There's a Thursday screening. There's a preview screening. I've got tickets for I'm so freaking excited. I can't wait. I am very excited. My only concern is that it's three hours long. Don't tell me that. I should not be a concern. That should not be a concern. It's just more Battlin I did not want this to be three hours long. Does it need to be three hours? You know if they can pay it? Well, you know, I think Robert Pattinson is a great choice. So you Kravitz looks great to me, Robert, down Pattinson. I knew you're gonna say of course. Week after week. This guy, right? It's why deal with all the time. That's crazy. Nice. So should we go with Batman Returns first, which is our picks. I'll be teaming up with Boaz. So why did we pick this one? While I kind of suggested should we pick Batman Returns? Exactly. That was the session ended the I think if I would have picked like, you know, I suppose. You know, when people saying you know, favourite Batman movie or Batman movie you want to? You know, the Dark Knight is obviously you know, right up there. But I think it's been done quite a lot. But when you did suggest Batman Returns I love that film. So it's like, yeah, that would probably be my, my, you know, second choice. And I thought it'd be cool to pick that one because obviously the new one has Catwoman and Batman Returns obviously has the best cat woman Woman by far. And Michelle Pfeiffer. Yeah. And and the paint and the new one has the penguin in it. And this is the moment so you go penguin and Catwoman. You got penguin and Katelyn. And we got to imagine if you just remade Batman was Oh man, that would be insane. That's what this was. Yeah, that would mistake it for about Batman Forever in there as well. Everybody's excited for a new film. And the Riddler being in is because that's like three hours long. It's Batman Returns and Batman Forever you go. So what do you guys Xander and David, what do you make of Batman Returns initial reactions. The first time I saw Batman Returns, I didn't like it. I thought this is really dark. It is so dark. I wasn't allowed to walk it for a long time. Yeah, like for what what it was at the time like kind of like a kids movie. It's actually What like an MCU movie is now this is what they had. Like, that's terrifying and the movie The movie is so horny. It's such a horny movie. I would love to fill her void unlimited poontang walk in saying my horse I've watched it for the first time was like this in this in for me. And then we did a podcast where we did Marvel vs DC films against each other. And we re watched and I really watched Batman Returns. And I was just like, damn, this is good. But I didn't newfound respect for Batman 89 and Batman Returns, because they're just, they're unreal. They're so like creative and timbre and style just oozes in every single moment. And to be fair, like Bommarito and suddenly went from like one of my least favourite to one of my favourites instantly. For me I'm I'm kind of the opposite is and I never watched it as a kid. When I was a kid I'd like Batman was a thing for me it was Spider Man and that's it. I cared about Spider Man. I thought Batman was just this rich dude, that was it funny. How wrong you are. Yes, he's rich, but a bat. So like when we did that podcast for mov versus DC. ended up watching Batman and Batman Returns and I love the world style. I Gotham looks so interesting. It's like, it doesn't look like a city. It looks like a dystopian, like, rundown like Utopia kind of thing. Yeah, it's it. I think it's it's surprisingly glamorous. Yeah, like, Oh, this looks like it. It looks like it should be on. Like, you know, like a model for a name like, like, just just something you should see in a museum. It's like a dystopia had esteem work factory. And I think that is genuinely like Tim Burton style like this makes me really pretty, but it's fucked up. Like that's him Burton as a person right there. Was that it was I loved the style of Gotham and I loved the world and everything else about it. I was just like, it's okay. Like, it's not my favourite Batman. It's not my least favourite Batman. It's just it's in the middle of like Michael Keaton. And I obviously I love tight veto but that's just because he's dying via I don't necessarily care if he's a penguin and I just like the guy. It's just charismatic. He just makes me giggle. And just disgusting looking. Yeah, just a little fucking real life Gremlin. Really fucking creepy. He's really out there as well. Just like he's so aggressive and ugly. And just so out, you know, over the top. I watched him just to play Frank but in a penguin getup is Frank from a long nose like that's it. He is the trash man. Quite literally. But yeah, like I enjoyed that aspect of it. And it does get quite dark at the time. But I think the holiness of the movie just kind of, you know, froze it off for me. It's a bit of putting, isn't it? so horny? It is very homely. It's so holy. It's still got like the 90 schlocky seabear movie kind of aspect of it and charm, which it does work well and it's favourable if you're comparing it's like, obviously it's an unfair comparison component. So Dark Knight because they're so different in terms of direction and everything like that, but if you compare it to what I've watched when I was actually a kid, what got me into Batman, like Dark Knight takes all the way I know we're gonna be talking about Batman and Robin, but still you shouldn't shouldn't criticise. Yeah, you should be completely. I was originally wanted to go with Lego Batman because that's my favourite Batman movie. That is genuinely, Lego Batman is the best Batman movie. Yeah, it is hands down. Can we change our answer last minute? No, you're not. No, I did not watch this movie. I watched the last five I'm willing to sobo as what happens in Batman return. So Batman Returns is the story of our Batman Returns after the first one. No way and yeah, no surprise. It's basically the story of Batman fighting the penguin and Catwoman. The Penguin at the beginning of the film, he gets abandoned as a child because he's some ugly freak monster. And he gets thrown in a sewer. He ends up becoming a super villain. And he wants to find his, you know, family and his real name and stuff. Batman ends up you know, and battling him. He has so many crazy plans in this film. So he has a plan to recover Mayor, a lot of shit happens. I think we'll get into it in script writing. But you know, he has a plan to become a plan to frame Batman when all else fails a plan to kill the babies and then when that blow up the city with with Penguin it gets it's really out there. And then you know, Catwoman as well. She's in this film, played by Michael Piper. And she's pretty cool. Yeah. And she wants revenge against this guy called Max Shrek was this sleazy businessman played by Christopher Walken. The great Christmas for Christopher Walken. Real Yeah. Where's the verb walk him here? This uncomfortable? It'd be funny if he was talking about a bat right about rang or something? is literally Michael Keaton gave it to me. So directing, I love the opening sequence where we hear like the penguin being born, and he's all like locked up in a cage and eats his parents. Can you get little tease of what it looks like from the inside? That was kind of cool. I love the little like, title sequence as well, following his cart down the sewers. Why is he so like, fucked up his parents? Is that what kinda like happened with the penguin? I don't know. It's never explained. So it could be I think she fucked a penguin. He's not telling the truth. Yeah, I think you know, one of the penguins that lead him into his grave. I reckon the one on the left is his dad. He hasn't been told, you know, Dan, that penguin goes Be quiet. I have an actual thing, though. So. So you know, like the future, you know, the movie Back to the Future very off topic. But I've been thinking about this today, right? So imagine the future, my McFly goes back and becomes Calvin Klein, wherever and makes out with his mom and his mom wants to bang him at this part of the prom. And then she, he gets away. They get together. They fall in love. And then he goes back to the future. And then it goes back to the future. They're married and everything. And then he comes it turns up. Would that not be a thing in like George McFly has had been like, that guy looks an awful lot like the guy we went to high school. He did say that. He is the spitting image of him. I think he just wants to avoid the thought of the fact that his mum isn't literally his wife wants to bank her own son in the past? No, no, I'm saying like, what in real life? Wouldn't he be like? Isn't that that guy? Did you cheat on me with Calvin Klein? He looks exactly like Calvin Klein. Yeah. Your son of a bitch. He should be treating McFly. Like, like, not my fucking kid. Get out of here. I'm not really bad. It's just a little follow up for you guys. The penguins. Foxes. Yeah. But I just loved like the title sequence following his cart, down the sewers. And you see a little like shadow change of the call to a penguin before that was kind of like nicely, subtly done. And there's like, no dialogue at all. You know, I never even noticed that. So that is pretty amazing. Yeah, it's really subtle. You have to really look for it. I think I got to watch again actually stop this call. Yeah, but there's like no dialogue at all. And I just love opening sequences where there's just no dialogue and all just pure visual storytelling. Any other directing moments? Anyone likes? Oh, yeah. I mean, I got a few I like when when she gets pushed out the window by Max Shrek. And you know, you have the because it comes out. I've absolutely no, I love how he kind of like, you know, yeah, I'm gonna kill you. Suing and it's like really close to her face. It's really close to his face is fucking tense. You got that music going? Right? It's like, it's not like you can kill me, actually, yes, like that. And you're like, I just got a killer. And then it goes like, it comes out like a mid shot because it's like, the tension is on. He's like, huh, I got Yeah. And then he just shoves around. And then I like when she goes through all of the sheets, just how it like kind of get close. It gets closer and closer to a phase where it's like, and then she hits the golf. I thought that was done. Yeah, that was pretty cool. And then you know, obviously she's bitten by radioactive cats or something. I don't know. She gets cat powers. That's never ever been explained. I don't go in on that. But yeah, I had that under acting actually. I think it's just great performances from Christopher Walken. He's just so intimidating towards a Joe Pfeiffer as they move towards the window and it's just like a great double bluff because I He says you know that line? Yeah no five he says it's not like you can just kill me. Yeah. And then normally you'd expect him to push push him through but no, he says the other line and then yeah, turns around and pushes him so it's just a great double bluff but I kind of for me it was more of an acting moment than a directing one because it's more of a now I would still count as directing I think I think the choice of shots music as well, because you know, the music does crescendo you like okay, something's gonna happen. I think all of that but even going through the window when through the I don't know what the hell they are the sheets or something. I think that's the director. Yeah. Yeah. About the opening battle scene with all the clowns and shit. Yeah, where they would like jump out of this giant Christmas present. You definitely get this very like Tim Burton feel to their costumes. Very, like fantastical comic book outfits, like Shoemaker style a little bit, but they look dirty and lived in and ultimately they feel really dangerous and they don't have fucking hockey sticks. They have machine guns, hockey socks, or just the machine guns and the ice. Incredible I mean, one guy even what like has a wind up mini gun that was awesome. Plus, like the Grand nature of like, Bruce Wayne's introduction with a bat signal was great. Yeah, it felt really epic for me the best Batman mobiel ever. So you get like gadget after gadget that takes out a load of goon so quickly. I think my favourite Batmobile gadget was just like this practical as like a platform just appears on the ground and just turns the car in the right direction. I find that's really practical Batman. Honestly, that's helpful as fuck for directing moments like that. I think an obvious choice would be when Catwoman first meets Batman and she just says meow and then the explosion happens that's so cool. That is my favourite show. Yeah, I think that's my favourite shows. Yeah it's it's so it's so well done it's so well done but I just think like directing wise it's just the timbre and style like that. Yeah, I feel that I think what you guys said it feels like a model say like he just feels like a set Yeah, but like in the best kind of way like you know it's a movie and you know it's a set so it doesn't you're not like engrossed in the fact that like oh wow these are real see like the she's like Chicago lane or whatever. But he's just a fake see, and you can tell but it just it has that feel to it that you like believe it? If that makes sense. Yeah, I love I love all the set designs I think it's so cool. It does get a feeling like I just said it's like a pop up book or or just a tiny city or something. Or as you said like I said it's just like every so perfectly simple yet sort of gritty and dark. And you know you colourful as well. Yeah, like this does look fictional. But you know, you do believe it you do feel like it is a it is as big as a city but it's like a set a set as big as a city and it's all very strange and very stylized. Not not quite real. But I find the scenes like the one we have here were slightly silly. Selina Selina Kyle freaks out in her apartment really interesting on how they're directed, you know, does timber and say to Michelle, you've got all these things here to play with just go nuts. Certainly there are shots where there's more direction, but I feel like timber and just lets Michelle Pfeiffer let loose and the camera just reacts to what she's doing. Especially when Pfeiffer just licks Batman's face later on. I'm like, was that scripted or did she just do that? Yeah. I think she just wants to lick Michael Keaton. Yeah. Who doesn't? But I mean, does that is that in the scripts or not? What do you reckon? I 100% reckon that's, that's odd. I don't like that. I think Tim Burton's a weirdo. Probably would write something like that in this group. Like she just she licks him, but I don't think in this specific like, film he did. I feel like he was trying to just, you know, have them have like a really good connection between each other and just like, build up this Roman SP between them. And then Michelle Pfeiffer was just all Michael Pfeiffer as you like to call it before. I think she was just like, that means lick him right. Okay, I'll just lick him. You probably got this entire dialogue of how I love him to bits, but I'm just gonna lick him. What do you reckon about you know the scene in the apartment? You know, is that all scripted? Or is it just Tim Burton saying to Michelle just do what you think is more just like basic direction. I think the only bit that is probably not directed that much in where she's like, just do what you like is where she initially hears the animal phone machine and then just goes fucking loopy and like starts screaming and smashing stuff you know she pulls it pulls the phone out and she's smashing everything she's smashing walls. I think maybe at that leniency because that does feel very organic and very like fluid it's like just smash whatever is around but I think from then on I think it's fairly scripted I mean you know she's putting stuff down the goddess basil there are a bunch of charts there I mean that's definitely and you know they're tired she smashes the the dollhouse afterwards I think that's the scripted just the way she's going apeshit does feel quite genuine and I love like the little Long Shot tease of what the costume looks like after she's you know, finished sewing it that was nice. Like it's the same with the penguin too. There's lots of like, nice little teases here and there like you know, and it's drawn out really nicely like what the penguin actually looks like. For me. I guess the the reveal of the penguin like the way that was done. It's slightly underwhelming possibly. Yeah, he's pretty underwhelmed. Were like Max is just captured and a penguin moves out a shot just feeling penguins. He's like, Hey, I hear maybe it's done on purpose. I'm not sure I feel like that's kind of perfect as well though they've done all these like teasing shots assignee of or showing what he's gonna look like. I think the only thing that they could do just to like, completely come out of nowhere and surprise the audience is just show him randomly. Just like sup Yeah, he's just like, he's long John's as well. He's just a nice pyjamas. Oh, hey, it's just so casual. That feel that feels like Diane DeVito is just saying, right? Just put me in long johns on our fucking it's like the penguin wasn't really ready for like, Oh, hello. Yeah, actually, I think my favourite shot of the penguin. But by this point, he's already been introduced. But to me would be a great introductory shot is where Batman is going to check up on him as he's in the library just going through all these documents. And you have this, like, just it's an immediate turn where he senses somebody looking at in turn. And the camera is like right there. So it's like right behind his head. So when he turns his eye it's like fucking Where do you know, like, barely close to the camera. And that always stuck with me. But you like the Oh, that's a really good shot of him. I'm like, you know, that would have been a really effective introductory shot at the penguin. There is in all of his glory. Yeah, absolutely. I thought that was a very shot of the penguin. And I would have had that was maybe the introductory shot but I do respect having him to come just appear like, you know, he's just just feeding these penguins is just like, Oh, I didn't see you there. It's kind of it was a surprise, surprise. Introduction. Like the last action scene is a little disappointing where the bat bow is like driving through the sewers. And that's like a bat barrel roll around the tunnel. It looks cool. But when Batman tries to like intercept the duck, the penguins duck vehicle. The Bat boat seems to get stuck in the wall. And they have to kind of get around it a lot. But they couldn't really hide it that well. It's one of those effects shots where you can only you only get like one chance it doesn't feel like it should have it should have actually smashed the duck. It sort of just falls down like a wet noodle and you allow does it really come with the momentum the Smash duck can have but yeah, I don't really shot around. Yeah, I think one of my favourite directing moments but I haven't talked about here it's a very simple one. But it's on the second row with the with the penguins goons. And you know they're just drawing the city and stuff and Batman's, you know, fighting other guys. He's just walking like just doing a beeline to the penguin just knocking out my fate. My favourite one is the big fucking, you know, strong man guy. And he's like, go ahead like to Batman to punch him. And then when the guy doesn't feel it, and then Batman looks down like the cares on Batman as Batman itself. And the guy. I just looked down a bomb on his belly. And then Batman shocks him into a sewer. Yeah, yeah, it was cool. Yeah. That was cool. That is really cool. Favourite shots. I think it is really easy. It's just that that shot of Michael Keaton with the bat signal behind it. That's that's really epic, isn't it? Yeah, the Catwoman that maybe that that bit weird. Cat Woman saves that woman who's been mugged in the alley. And she looks directly at the woman and like he's kind of right at the camera and she says I am Cat Woman hear me roar. Like that's cool. That's that's really good. I like that I go for that like favourite shots about you David. Honestly, I was gonna say the Bat Signal one as well. It's just it's so iconic. Is yeah framed perfectly. Everything about that shot is just gorgeous. I it's one of the few things in this film I go show that. Yeah, it's like it can lead to be the poster of the movie. Yeah, I would say my favourite scene and the shot would be the exploding shopping mall when she's like, you know, tu tu tu tu tu. I just I just think that's great. Like, you have him facing the penguins. You've got them in shot. You've got her coming out of nowhere. So you've got the three main characters all together meeting for the first time and giant explosion biggest explosion in the film basically, I've got the page upon on Google just returns and I completely forgot that shot of like the max Shrek toy shop. Where she could have like a big happy face and cat one comes behind it in the glass. Oh, yeah, that was good. Oh, yeah. Which one? I mean, yeah, yeah, no, I know exactly. What yeah, that's, that's such a great shot. So yeah, that's it. That'd be another one. Sorry. Kind of cheating. So score film in what are you going for? For directing? David? What are you saying? I was gonna say something like seven ish, maybe. Can have decimals. I was thinking around the same so how about we go 7.64 7.47 by five seven by five. I would how'd you feel about 7.5 I think 7.5 is i is reasonable for us. Alright cool. Right What we go with them though as I think we should go higher in my opinion, high high sevens just trying to outdo the good goes 7.51 10 101 8.2 I'm feeling like Oh 8.1 I was gonna say but eight 8.1 8.2 Yeah 8.1 Okay David stressing out over there because he David times right now but under his desk he's doing this oh, can see steam coming out of his nostrils. It's all over the camera. It's just coming out my ears but my headphones are blocking. Screenplay then this film is kind of all about like Shrek and the penguin like manipulating the people of Gotham and I think they do it very convincingly. For me, the penguin manipulates the people to follow him for, you know, to become mayor, because he you know he has a sad past and he milks it in the grave. Yard scene. You know, human he manipulates people's opinion on batman with that great like scene where he controls the Batmobile and like like nearly kills him and uses Catwoman in the process. He even says to Batman, you've got to admit I've played this thinking city like a heart from hell. You know, the script does a great job of making the villains feel very intelligent, in a very like fantastical like Gothic tone, and Batman as well. Like the fact that he responds so quickly by playing the penguin at his own game. The penguins speak to the city playing that line through the speakers, you know, the characters decisions and plot gives the film like a grounded and realistic feel. That's why the film feels so exciting and compelling to me. Yeah. What do you guys think about like, the plot of Yeah, like the penguins and tracks plan. I think the penguins initial moment when he like, steals a baby. And then yeah, that's so That's so clever. But it's just so easy. Oh, no. Yeah, it's like dropping 10 pounds on the floor. But oh, that's crazy. It's just yeah, it's just doing that. That's so cool. And it's just clever. It's just so simple. And like yes, saving a baby. That's like yeah, the best you can do. Yeah, really simple and really effective for Hitler his plot and I think the way that they actually they do go about manipulating Gotham is genuinely just, well, it's borderline maniacal, but it's also like, it's not so crazy. Like, we've had a lot weirder like Batman villains in the past when it comes like trying to take over coughing and their plans for it like Mr. Freeze in in Dominum robbing freeze over for know that there's no reason for him to freeze Gotha he could just continue his research to save his wife. But these guys like Shrek just wants to raw golfer because he wants you know, money. He's like, Yeah, buddy is a businessman. That kind of thing. He's just obsessed with it and died at the penguin just once. You know what people to love him? Yeah, so well. What was it? Shrek. He kind of wants to our path plant bill where the mayor won't let him build this power plant which isn't going to give power to the city. It's going to suck power from the city. And he only wants the language to help him with that. But yeah, the penguin I think for for this film was kind of weird because I had a very weird emotional reaction to the penguins death. Like the first time I watched this film, he is objectively a disgusting human being, you know, just an evil evil guy and a very bad Batman, you know, but you know, the way he talks about it is like, you know, he was abandoned by his family. He doesn't have anybody. He wants attention. He wants respect. And then when he dies, and he was raised by Penguin, he was raised my friend, but this is crazy. It's one of those things where you don't know what you've got till it's gone, because I think he's doing all of this is because he wants love from God. He can't get it. He's like, I'll fucking kill everybody. And then when he dies, the people that love all along, they were right there. They were right, man, and they, you know, the penguins moved him into his watery grave, but it's like he was looking for love and from humans, and he had a love of his penguins, and he didn't see it. Well, it is truly, truly beautiful. It is truly gorgeous. It shakes and then Vin Diesel rides in and screams there's nothing better than family. So I was gonna say, I think the best part of this film is like the dynamics between like Batman and Catwoman in terms of the scripts. There's a point in the film where like Bruce Wayne has effectively stopped the penguins plan of becoming the mayor and is invited to this mass ball. But the only reason he goes is because of Selina Kyle might be there. He just feels compelled to go there because she's the only one that kind of can relate to him. This person that lives a double life and has a little bit of crazy and just like Batman. Plus, I love the added irony that everyone at the ball is wearing masks apart from Batman and Catwoman. You know, in the end, we're both they're both lonely people where no one really understands them fully. But each other that's kind of why he's willing to unmask at the end and wants to be where he wants you know to be with Selena. But Selena says, I just couldn't live with myself. So don't pretend this is a happy ending. It's like Selena just wants her fate to be in her paws. A lot boy. No one else. I appreciate any lead balloons. Oh. Do you Do you agree with that? Or is? I think that's my favourite part of the move? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I think that that's the scene that I absolutely love is then that fall together. They have such great they have such great chemistry with the suits on and without, and trying to make sure I've got the right movie. This is the one where that like Salinas over at Bruce Wayne's house, yeah. And they both get a separate call to go somewhere in the ballpark. Yeah, there's great moments like that between these two guys. And they just they've just got really great chemistry together. I mean, I would love to have seen more scenes with Bruce and Selina to explore their dynamic further, but the plot kind of gets in the way you a bit with the penguin for me. Yeah. Because you kind of got to have an ending. This is the problem with having like a movie with three villains. I mean, I've seen it with Spider Man three. Batman and Robin has three villains. There's so many other old again. Sorry. No, there's so many movies that have like multiple villains. And it's like, okay, gets great. We'll have multiple villains, but like, you've got to give time for each of them. And there's just not enough time in this movie. I mean, the movies only what? Two hours? Yeah, I think one of the things I really liked is where you're saying when they're at a bowl. I do agree view I do think they have a deep connection. And they are very lonely. They're the only two people in the world that understand each other. But I love the scene where he happens to you look up at the mistletoe. And he's like, she's like, Miss could be deadly if you eat. And he goes, a kiss could be even deadly. Or if you mean it, which is what each of the characters had said to each other as Batman and a woman. Yeah. And then they clock on. And I love her reaction where she's like, Oh, God, do we have to keep fighting in that that's what that's the bit I was gonna bring up in acting home her performance at that one moment. She just hugs him and says like, Does this mean we have to start fighting? Yeah, it's like it breaks our hearts. i It's so great. It's a great moment. Yeah, it's like oh, shit, you know? Yeah, but yeah, Bruce ain't no bait. Like, you know, we'll we'll move outside. I'm gonna kick. Yeah, I feel like this film can still work without the penguin. Like the penguin. You know, using radio controlled penguins was a bit of a stretch for me as well, because it does hinder the momentum of the film. I think the moon I think the movie works. Absolutely. It's just like there's certain things that I would have wanted more of. Yeah, I would want more Catwoman you know, like they left it open ended for so that She could come back in a form but then timber and income and micro kindling cover the kind of half. They did like a soft reboot with Val Kilmer. Really fun fact, though, about the that final shot of Catwoman, that was the most expensive shot in the movie room, they sort of seemingly killed off Catwoman. And then right in the last shot, they had the bat signal in the sky, and her head pops up is like all Catwoman still alive and out there so they could do another movie with her. And that was at the request of the producers, right, the finished filming film was ready to go. And they said no, she needs we need to know that she's still alive so that we can do another film with her. And so they put her head off at the end and that shot alone costs like 250 grand or something like that. It was a ridiculous amount of money for that one shot because they had to like get get the background get a green screen like that and get the costume back and stuff like that. It's not even Michelle Pfeiffer that it's just some woman stood there like like that. But it was just one of those weird stories where that one shots cuz a lot of money ad so we got any cool lines and you know, a lot of my favourite lines have to be I think be from like Danny DeVito the penguins as some of them can wait a slowing. My favourite phase is where the guy says to him. What was it mustn't be a lot of reflective surfaces in a sewer because he's ugly. Because it could be worse my nose could be gushing with blood. Like what bites his nose. Think to be fair, minor, like the more famous ones like just the simple meow the that mole with I mean, the ballroom like do we have to start fighting That's so clever. It's just so well done. Just little moments like that. I love that. I think mine's just a bit more niche. It's when Catwoman and Batman are fighting. She says like somebody say fish I've been fed all day. And he just says eat floor for as a doctor says High Five is so funny. I can never eat for high fibre. No hard feelings. Actually semi hard I'd say. So done. I think also one of my favourite ones is where is like where the penguin goes? Like, you know, he's basically run away. He's gone back to the sewer. And throughout the film, he won't anybody told him penguin only Cobblepot and one of the clowns says, Hey, Oswald, how you know you're back. And like he hits him. And he's like, my name is not Cobblepot My name is penguin. I am not a human being I am an animal. Cold Blooded is a really cool lion over x. It just kind of reminded me of like, like the elephant man, but like the opposite is like no, I am I'm a hideous creature and I'm hideous on the outside. Apart from when he says hell the sexes are equal with their erogenous zones blown sky high. Like whoa, that is proper give me the heebie jeebies. Honestly, that character is just disgusting because there's also that that way just says like, Ah, just the pussy. I was lucky. No, it's horrible. Oh, God. I was not I was not mentally prepared for David. Really? Not ready. So my favourite line is life's a bitch now so Am I honest I do like a lion. So screenplays score fill me in what you're going for. I'm willing to go with an eight for this David's I was honestly gonna say as well like I was I was originally thinking seven but I was like nine is more of an eight because like there's just the one liners are actually good. It's not cringy shit to hear all these one liners like is in its name. Don't say the name. It gives it power. It gives it power. Yeah, like the one liners in this one are actually entertaining as well apart from data vetoes while we go and pull them down. 7.7 I think maybe I do like the scripts. I think it's pretty intelligent at times 8.7 You want to go eight Okay, endpoint or 8.4? Or 8.3? Let's go for it. Right acting then acting. Yeah, that's what makes this movie this movie works because the performances work. Michael Keaton. I think in the first one, he feels a little stiff. Yeah. Well, I think the suit was having to do with that as well. But yeah. So yeah, I think in this one, he definitely feels a little comfy. In the role and in the suit. I think Michelle perfect. Yeah. It's absolutely fantastic. See, see, she steals the entire movie with great with great reasons. You know, she's iconic in this role. And there's a reason why we haven't had a better Catwoman. It's because we've already beat Sweet so early. Danny DeVito is necessarily gross and grimy. And he makes my skin crawl and I want to boot him off a break. But overall the best reasons and what's his what's his face? Walk and Christopher Walken he's also really intimidating in this role and you just don't you don't see Christopher Walken performance like this anymore. Just he just kind of does his old man thing now so it's good to go back and see him do something a little bit different that you weren't expecting to performance is all around are absolutely phenomenal. I mean, even like the there's little moments from Michelle Pfeiffer that I really like even before she becomes Catwoman after like Batman saves her near the beginning, there's a brilliant like sinister look from her to make sure like no one's looking at her and like zaps the guy on the ground, just for the hell of it. Even those knockdown just like the first moment you see that this character is a bit sadistic when previously she's been seen as this bumbling secretary. So I thought that was just a little great moment from her to start off with I think Michelle Pfeiffer is 100% the best Catwoman it's really hard to beat her. And it's kind of a shame that we did pizza worthy because it would have been great to see like so many other people train take the role one but like, holly berries cat one was fucking horrendous. around us is the word cat woman in Dark Knight Rises was mad at bats. I didn't mind Anne Hathaway I thought she had some great moments. She was okay. But you know, like comparing it to Michelle Pfeiffer is just like, you can't really do much better than that. Like the character is so eccentric and so bizarre that you fall in love with her. Because of it. He Sue is so stupid because it just sewn together. It's just a lot of white lines on block. And it's just like, normal. That would never work in any other movie. But this one, it's kind of perfect. And then Michael kins back Manny's? He's Michael Keaton. Like, what else? Do you need me to say? He's great. Yeah, I mean, just like the first looks we've had at the new Catwoman in the Batman. Zoe Kravitz. Like the whole headpiece is really, really annoys me because there's literally just covers her nose and like yes, it Yeah, it looks really weird. Like you're not hiding your identity at all. Like, what is that? With, you know, the tiny Balaklava? I don't know, maybe the identities in that film are not big. I don't know. But just costume wise aesthetically. It's like it's no Michelle Pfeiffer at all. It looks really really odd. Favourite performances should we do both? But I also really liked your Pfeiffer in this. Naturally, I'll go Michelle Pfeiffer. I'll go Michelle Pfeiffer. I think she's a better actress in this. But I do like Danny DeVito. David, what are you going for for favourite performance? Honestly, it's torn between Christopher Walken and Michelle Pfeiffer. I think I'm going to go with Christopher Walken because I love seeing him in a darker role. And I like the idea of this. Like, velvety voice man. Being a villain is genuinely incredible. I love the I love him as an actor. He is in booking seven psychopaths he plays in perfectly in that and indexes is so menacing and intimidating. They just like it's a side of him that I've not really seen before. So I'm going to go Chris, welcome. Xander. You know what? I'm not going to everyone said, Michelle. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna. I'm gonna I'm gonna call it macro Kim because like I said, Michael Clayton feels so much. I'm so much more impressed with his actionability in this than I am in Batman 89. So I'm gonna go with Michael Kidd just because he's, he's had a movie now to sink into the role. And now he's really in the groove. So yeah, Michael key for me. Top Dog. Is he your favourite Batman? Listen, I'm controversial. I really like Ben Affleck. No, I don't think that's a controversial viewpoint. I think just the films about him himself is really good. I would say exactly. Ben Affleck is so good as Batman. It's just such a shame he didn't get so low. It really really is really is a shame really is a shame. Right? My favourite performance? Yep, it's Michelle Pfeiffer. I don't think you can beat her. It's just incredible. So sexy just amazing. In that role, and unbeatable I think in that character. So fill me in acting school. We're going for I want to I want to go biggle Bill nine David, how are you feel? Honestly, I'm, I'm down for going for nine because everybody is great. That it would be a 10 if Danny DeVito was just a little less disgusting. Yeah. Yeah, if Danny DeVito didn't maybe want to vomit, or does that make it a 10? Just makes that nine. Makes it a nine with a bit of vomit dribbling the odds of one to the nines as a 90 Now we go outside all the time he's got all that up Yeah, no, no, I'll just been been eating licorice or something. It's just chewing tobacco. That's all there is to tobacco. Oh, the scene where he's eating the fish. So disgust Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of fish really? I quietly but do you remember when that monkey comes down to show him that you know that has the the children and and you know then he does that like scream so much. There is like it's fucking like bowls of black stuff. Just one thing I remember hearing is Danny DeVito he was on The Graham Norton Show. And he said that scene was it took so many takes and it cost a lot of money because the monkey instinctively attacking it would go for the crop just start ripping it is padding. You hear about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard about that. Yeah, yeah. Did Yeah. I saw the clip on Graham Norton. Yeah, he said he could have been seriously injured. Had they not? It's not a fancy in you know. So score for acting bars. What should we go with? I'm thinking I'm not sure as high as a nine like 8.79 trying to make us look bad. If we walked into the trap. Say again, what are we thinking? 8.7 8.7? Yeah. Oh, eight, nine 8.8. Okay, all right, let's add up the scores then for Batman Returns. Batman Returns gets 49.7 G's. So fill me in. What is your choice for Batman films? Okay. Okay. I want to tell a story. I want to tell story. So I want to paint you a picture of the last week. So we decided we wanted to do the Batman podcast with you guys. Yeah. And at first, you know, the obvious answer is the dark night. But we thought you know what, you guys are going to go for that. So we'll think of something else to make it a little bit more interesting. So we, we decided with initially our answer was The Lego Batman Movie. Because that is without question, the best Batman movie. It's like got the most law. It's so hilarious, slick, the ultimate love letter to Batman. Exactly. Exactly. To Great deconstruction of the character while also staying truthful to the character. It's absolutely perfect. But then I had I had a really fun idea. I said, why don't we just say Batman and Robin? And to which David says, I don't know, mom. And I said, it'll be funny. And so he said, Okay, so now we're here. I just want to say I regret it. I regret all my choices. I just want to say fuck you pass under. He asked me like, Oh, do you want the serious answer? Or the comedy? Like just the answer you want the most you have to talk about? And you went with that? And Robin, honestly, whichever, whichever you'd said, comedic or series, I would have still said. So, yeah, we went away and watch this. And I made, I'm hoping you can see this on here. But I made this many notes. Notice how it's as many notes as he made for Cancer Centre. Like I made a lot of notes I also made upon counter, so Oh, no, I'll set I'll save my findings for the end. But yeah, we've got a lot to say. Just don't Arnie alone, you'll be in triple digits. You know, he's got so many. That's what it was. It was It wasn't just normal puns. It was ice puns, only ice puns. I only counted. I didn't end up making any notes. Because I was I was watching it last night. I was just sitting there and I was just thinking Jesus Christ. There's not anything to really talk about this movie over then how bad it is. I won't be able to twist this in a way that I actually liked this movie. So I'm just going to admit defeat at the beginning. Yeah, say it's awful. But whenever like a point comes up, I'm just gonna shit on it. I'll remember certain bits. I think I have one positive point and they'll come up in accent. David, even if you shit on it, who's gonna notice it is Shinzo. You know? More shit on the shit. I mean, you're not gonna see it. I mean, it'll just it's just a big pile of shit at that point. So at some point, somebody will notice this is a couple inches bigger and bigger. That's what she says. It is really odd to me this film because Josue Maca is a really good filmmaker because he Is he made? What did he make falling down with Michael Douglas? Amazing. The Lost Boys. The Lost Boys almost fire. A time to kill. Yes, a bit cheesy, but I still realise Yes, bad, but Flatliners Yeah. So it's It baffles me that this went so south so quickly with such a really good filmmaker, and I have a theory. Joshua Macker is an older gentleman. And yes, born in 39 I guess he grew up watching the 60s Batman TV show. So and obviously that show is very 60s very overtly comic book, you know, the the power all over the cross the screen or whatever, and very comic tone, but I felt like this Batman and Robin is a really good film in the 60s. But they just made it in the wrong era. I literally wrote this, I said, this movie feels like a high budget episode of a 60 show. But it's like 30 years too late. It also came out just five years after Batman Returns, which is arguably one of the darkest movies in the series. He's also so dramatically into dramatically different in tone that it feels like this movie was actually just a cartoon live action movie in the same series. It's in the same continuity. Can you imagine like wrapping your head around that so it started a Batman Returns and then just skipping forever? In Batman and Robin? That's outrageous. The leaping quality, even forever was after but it wasn't it was this staffed, you know, this staffed? It wasn't like, like a giant toy commercial. Or, you know, yeah, I think basically, what I heard about the making of this is forever did better than returns. And essentially, they were like, hang on, if that was the case, one returns and then forever was lighter. If you make it really light you know, that's where the money's going, you know, so just just make it a little more a little more kid friendly than the last one. And I think they overdid it. So fill me in what happens in Batman Robin? So many things. So to sum it all up to the best of my abilities. At the very beginning we immediately see them crashing into like Mr. Freezes like compound kind of thing is ice cream factory. And it's an ice cream factory that what the folk Why is David he's robbing their they're robbing he's robbing a museum. All right, it all looks the same. Listen, David if you if you're not going to do it properly. It all looks the same. I don't think you're taking this film. Seriously, David? Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm so taking nipples and everything. Says Robin it's museum for diamonds because this suit requires diamonds to fucking be powered, which is stupid. Why would you design around that? Like of all fucking things? Because they look cool, David. Start with the fun. I swear to God I will come for you. I spawn counter for the podcast so what happens is this ridiculously stupid machine guns of the ice battle with hockey sticks for no fucking reason. Absolutely not. Why? Why are they using hockey sticks? He's got this freeze rate. And they're just like yeah, let's go to Dick's Sporting Goods and just get some hockey sticks. You know why this is is because they have the toy line of you know hockey Batman, and they want to put hockey Batman in a seat. Oh, yeah. Not the actual fruit for hockey Batman. He's got to do some hockey was so bad in terms of plots. The actual the actual plot of this movie is that Batman and Robin are having tension because Robin isn't being treated like a grown up. So he has he's being like I'm even though he's like yeah, exactly. He wants to be treated more like a grown up and He does that by soaking a lot man. He's got the Tobey Maguire syndrome. Oh, burn me. Mr. Freeze is trying to come up with a a sort of like cure for his wife's incurable illness because fucking Of course, and then. Meanwhile, he's doing that and also decides to jelly for stop freezing a lot of things. Meanwhile, Uma Thurman is how does the cat woman thing I actually wrote this actually does the cat woman thing where she's like really ugly because she's got bad hair and glasses and that's really me because I have bad hair and glasses. So take glasses, man, and you'd be a model Come over my nether regions region. That's to say why spawns so yeah, she then comes back to life as poison ivy. And then it was her her her Creator also creates Bane, who's there's muscle bound freak who has no lines of pain, which by the way, they looks great. It's just fucking dreadful. I seriously think they ruined the character until Tom Hardy. They destroyed back 100% Because everybody thought he was a dumb hulking beast. He's like, a DC hole. He was never like that in the comics. He was punished him until until Tom genuine. So then Uma Thurman is trying to like, like, I don't know, save the planet or something. But with trees and shit. And she does that by attracting Batman and Robin and that further brings them tension because Robin is like, Oh, she wants to bang me not you. So Batman. Batman fight No, bro. So basically, Mr. B scene trees appears. And then she realises that Mr. Freeze is even more attractive than Batman or Robin. And so she tries to find Mr. Freeze. And then so they team up to try and conquer the world. And it ends poorly because she's just thinking with her all the way to work all the way to form an evil plum. Is it really? So a subtle pun? You could have said lady flower or something? Flower you couldn't sit like SAP literally just the SAP at the very minimum. You're not gonna rose her lady garden you didn't have to this is why you're single subscribers tumbling. But also, also, Alicia Silverstone is in this movie as bad girl and also really fun fact about Alicia Silverstone. Do you know do you I'm hoping you guys don't know this so I can get your real reaction. But at least you Silverstone. She's like now a grown woman with children. And she feeds her children. Like baby birds. She like chews up their food and spits it in their mouth. Yeah, it's fucking disgust. There's videos of it on the internet. She like fucking chews up the food for them and spits it in their mouths like baby birds. And they're like Yes Mommy, I'm ready for more food now. It's weird. It's so weird. Okay, she's a fucked up woman. She should have played Robin I'd love to see Chris McDonald dressed as credible That's fucking disgusting. She is a woman she's a burden of just feeling her kids like a bird just Michael Keaton in the background just just just constantly to like like directing then i i love about as knows this. I love a gearing up montage scene. And in this film. They do it right from the start. But I swear to God, I felt violated because they used to extreme close up shots of their asses. I'm like, why are you showing this? I try to avert my eyes as quickly as I could. But it wasn't quick enough. I was like what though? I think also everybody everybody's always you know, this film and the bat nipples. Nobody mentions the bat. This perfectly moulded crack on his ass and it's just in your face. I think on the fact that Alfred designed the suits as well. He just wanted to see his Arts The dude has been locked up for so long. He's gonna get something Master Wayne you're looking Harami master Wait, may I say you are looking Domi Feck one thing I know one thing I wrote down though was the the soup scene feels like an Edgar Wright seen his editor had a stroke. Why is that? It's just like now my leave leave extra long pause because I think you're right edited. It's just like buying a bike bike bike. This is like buying he's already pulled up his bat shorts. Just keep keep it for two seconds. Why is he like send it back? But when that girl suits up she does this a shot where she zips up the boot and then it stops but then just tilts up to her ass for no reason I'm like why it's like they forgot to show her arts Yeah, this leads me a pause from the top of the zip and then oh shit we got to go up again I'm like Quentin Tarantino directed that one shot you just want to see more of the feet and then they're like no they asked counters the foot as well you know the cones as well with the bats and I know it's just like why Yeah, what's good Alfred design he sees that is nice. They should have cured this fucker at the end of the show. Let him die. It's weird how they look kinda like latex but also metal as well. It's a weird blend of latex that is perfectly moulded to their eyes but also metal that it just gives them nipple cops I don't know Do you reckon I think maybe the nipples are functional gadgets that let you just lasers now I think because a Mr. Freeze is always freezing the air Do you think he's nipple was always hard by Mr. Freeze? And it was just really if I'm gonna fight Mr. Freeze I need room for my arachnid. That's an idea I don't know. Like fine please. Navi need somewhere else to be pointed out a bit more as well to see how big do you think Batman's? Big as the penguins knows no, see, he's called Batman because his dick is like a baseball bat Okay, one thing I want to bring up about directing. Yeah, is the fact that there's one really big pet peeve in movies. I hate it's fucking Dutch angles. Yes. Like the entire movies on a till. And I'm like, why? What's the point? What's the point? Joelle? Why are you doing this to me? I was getting an ache in my watch get like, that's the insights. I was like. Man was just drunk. She's just like this looks so cool. Wow, there's a picture in next. Space like, it's like in every single action scene, there is a Dutch angle and it literally felt like it got to the point where I felt like their, their steady cams were just broken and the tripods were broken. Just leave it like that. That'll do. No one gives a shit about this anyway, maybe that's the functionality of the bat nipples is so that they can try and angle it but his nipples are so out of place. They try and get it on a level. And then it's just like, straight. It's just that and also, just like the way that opening action scene was cut like, with with the ice hockey dudes. A lot of it was cut just so quickly in you kind of, you're lost. What the hell is happening? You know? Yeah, that's a big problem with all the action scenes in this film. Like it just jumps in between places people just end up somewhere somehow he's just like, Why the fuck did you come from? Yeah, I think I think you're right. There is a kind of, there isn't a sort of, like a great positioning of like, where everything is. I think you just know that. You know, you go from angle tangle from character to character. And there isn't sort of a like, you know, rhythm to it. Yeah, like continuous loop. Like, it just feels like there's lost footage constantly, like the flesh getting corrupted. So you just had to cut out? Yeah, I think maybe they've cut stuff around. Yeah. Even with the wide shots like, there's not enough time to process what's actually in the show. Just cut to the next shot so quickly. One thing I guess we can bring up here is like CGI. Yeah, there's some really shiny CGI and there's some really shoddy CGI in this like, the surfing scene of that. Yeah, I was 100% going to say that Batman and Robin raises a Silver Surfer surfing scene reminded me of you know, like Die Another Day and when he You know where he's sailing down that wave? It's just so off. You know, it's shiny. They don't look human. They're not moving right? They started surfing down and I showered as a joke, and then he actually said, fucking hell this is the movie this the movie I'm watching there's some like really weird and I think lazy cutting here just after like the really boring and really short car chase Batman dives into like the windscreen of Mrs. Freezes car and then cut to Batman just like whipping off his cape cape to reveal Mr. Freezes just on the ground. And he brings his arms down like holding his cape like really slowly like he's Bela Lugosi as Dracula. And it's just really statuesque. And it's like, Oh, I've got the bad guy now and pose. I can never imagine this George Clooney barber being intimidated? No, it just really isn't. I just can't see. But I think you're right, because I never really got that scene like he smashes into, into the car. But then Mr. Freeze is like a couple of feet from the car laid down flat. So did he knock him out? Then pull him out of the car, then set himself up to do that. It was like Robin got a picture for the ground? Yeah, good. Yeah, it's good bombing afterwards. He's like to freeze like I was saying like watching it when when we were talking about the ski fight scene. There is one bit I quite like just one shot. Where Batman, I think for this guy, a dish or something. Yeah. And then punches through it. And I really liked that shot where the camera goes straight, straight through the punch of the dish, and the cameras there and then the guy goes back. You know, like a first person from the thug. And like the dish punch. Yeah, through the dish. I thought that was a really good shot. I like that as well. But it's just the only thing with that is just that George Clooney looks just like a really. He just looks so unenthused George Clooney is finding it in the entire movie. I think you're right as Batman. He's not intimidating. But even as Bruce Wayne, I kind of noticed on this rewatch of the film, he's got this smug. Like, in times when it's really inappropriate. Like he kind of smirking. That's just his resting face isn't it kind of looks embarrassed? Yeah, he always does that signature smirk in every single movie. And it's just because he wants to make people horny. But I don't think it works when he's saying like, yeah, Alfred's gonna die. You know? Like yeah, what can you do? That there's something I know is quite early on. George Clooney has a head wobble I paid to put in like the first five minutes his head did not stop every time he speaks he's like yes Robin Yes. And even in that moment when he pushes the guys like night head join you watch a clip the entire the managers wobble in his head constantly every time one well. He's wobbly he's had all the time. I can imagine joshimath Just like can we make the cow a lot tighter? Please could stop doing the wobble. I think it was cutting off blood. His brain and he's just having a mini there's so many other things like the feel like the from the 60s show like the back credit cards. You've got that whole scene? Oh, yeah, that was ridiculous. It's just Batman Forever on it as well as so. So it just say about my forever rubber lips as well when Robin kisses? Yeah, like sit like that. And I also wrote this, I said, it's got that 60s feel. Because there's just no depth to any of the characters. Like I mean about the TV show. They just say exactly how they feel. And it's never anything interesting. But the reason you watch that old 60s show is just to see Batman or Robin do an adventure and then go home. Yeah, like there's nothing else to it. There's no with a movie, you've kind of got to have some form of depth or character development and there's just nothing to any of these characters. The difference between the 60 show and this one is the fact that like Robin in the 60s who is likeable, you know, he's the he's the sidekick he's you know, he's matching Batman's chin stroking as much as Batman, you know. In this one, take, it's just a fucking dick. You know, he's not likeable. And so yeah, he lives up to his name for once. They were trying to do this like really like opposite thing to the 60s show thing where they were just like, Rob, we're gonna meet Deke want to be, you know more than he is. But the way that the like Chris O'Donnell likes it, it was just, I'm gonna be a whiny little bitch. The entire movie I am just gonna be a little bit too whines and like doesn't get away once I'm a spoiled brat and I want cookies. I think you're right like he's whining performance and also like his character never does anything like he constantly need saving from Batman he would have done it objectively in several different parts. And yet he's like, Well, why don't you let me do it my way. It's like you're fighting return you would have died. At the end when he when he doesn't save him. He's like, Well, why didn't you save me? What the hell's wrong with you? I put yourself out. Yeah, exactly. You know, we've established that you know, I had trust in you. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was really infuriating. I wasn't really sure what that story beat was going for. I think the scene where Batman and Robin and now Batgirl take down poison ivy is pretty dreadful because he know for sure that Robin is finally listening to Batman. Because before Robin goes off on his bike, Batman has this last line before the scene cuts and Chris O'Donnell just stands there. Like I think Batman might be right poison ivy is millon manipulating. But when he takes off the rubber lips it's no surprise at all like the subsequent fight is just rubbish. The way poison ivy just gets eaten by the same plant she comes out of was just stupid. Even a school play want to think of you know the thing that would stupid, you know? Meanwhile, Robin is repeatedly being pulled into the water by these vines. But when Batman just cuts himself free, Robin just randomly comes out. And it's like, hang on, how do you get out? No one's free. Do you? Yes, like seems missing? Yeah. Yeah, it's all over the place. his nipples caught the vines. That's another function of the nipples. Everything solved by the nipple. There you go. Then the nipples. Yeah, they're the saving grace in the film, I think without the nipples. Yeah, they all die on the nipples. This movie wouldn't like, you know, it's like Jar Jar Binks this, this, like the nipples just set it all up. None of this would have happened without them. Exactly. The movie is just so insanely slow. It feels that you feel the two hours. It's so long, it feels so slow. There's just no energy from any of the any of the accident, that's gonna be a problem from the director side. Like, if all of them have the same problem, then it's got to be his fault. I would say literally, nobody has energy, except for two actors who I think are having the time of their lives. So Arnold Schwarzenegger, arguably too much energy. He's got way too much. I think that's where the rest of everybody's energy has gone. He's like an energy vampire. And he's just like, sucked. Everybody's he's absorbed it. Yeah, he's. He's having a hell of a time. He's having fun. I think everyone having fun. He's having an ice time. So he's having a great time. And the other person that's having a great time, who I wish was in the film more, is the guy that pushes IV in you know, gives her the powers. Yeah, he was awesome. He was amazing. I forgot he was in the film. I was like, holy shit. This guy is great. He has my favourite line in the movie by the way, which I will reveal later on. And the movie is just so horny. Like we said this about Batman Returns by returns as a demon qualities at the very least it's just as horny, like that's it's ridiculous. Like everyone wants to buying poison ivy and poison ivy wants to bind everyone else. It's ridiculous. And shots of bad nipples and fat butts and back crushes. But girl books and bad girl feed. Like do you remember when poison ivy like gets out giant monkey and starts that sexy strip tea? I literally wrote down this movie just made me insanely Honi I apologise I'm now writing these notes with my throbbing erection you know I was also gonna say this because like any of us watch this movie feel like they want you to be stepped on by him effeminate as well yes no, I'm not gonna say no, it definitely made my bark hard is all I'm saying. So difficult question favourite shots all seen the one where the movie ended. The credits are my favourite scene. A favourite shot is when the pheromone start coming out of the monkey suit that poison ivy is in and the hands come off and it's like these these nice hands. It cuts back to the the monkey face and also while she's taking the gloves off the hands of that and you can still see the bad monkey chest there it just looks really weird and funny that like you like Bob was said earlier the that shot of the punch of the play yeah punching through the plate that's really cool. And I did like like obviously the setup for the shot where he's standing over freeze is dumb as hell but like it's just he's there and he like if I was just a screenshot I'd be like that's pretty cool. So yeah take that. I think for me like the final battle is quite boring again why work is like dreadful we don't really talk too much about the wirework in this film but I think certainly this is a really bad example of why we're absolutely but I think my favourite bit I guess the final battles when the telescope falls down through the building with Batman like diving onto the telescope that was that was acceptable. That was fine you know, cool model work there. But I was left scratching my head when Batman catches these two scientists from falling but just leaves them at the bottom of the cliff saying thank you. Then Batman picks up that girl and Robin and saves them. I'm like, hang on, I'm pretty sure they've got grapple guns. Yeah, they don't. I love to see like a comedy post credit scene with the two scientists at the bottom of the cliff saying like, Batman's still gonna save us right? Like yeah, sure. He'll be back soon. Yeah. That's how it should have ended. Yeah, I think would have been great. If I was going to pick a least favourite scene I can 100% tell you it's when they kill Dane because like the whole idea of Bane is that thing is literally it's hatch swim it is it is extremely hard to get out like bloody like in Dark Knight Rises ease, ease literally like pulling you have all this strength. They kick it off his head. They just slightly kick the wire. He just falls out. Flick it and it's fine. You could just blow on it and it would fall off his head. That was terrible. That was really embarrassing. Honestly, how many times see like being kicked like down a flight of stairs as well and that's not come out. It can survive being like kicked down the fire stairs, but it can't because I'm sad little like flick of the toe. Yeah, yeah, that was good. I'm horrible. They did they did my boy dirty. So directing score what we go for? Let's go. Five, five. Okay, fill me in. Hear me out. Hey, David. Hear me out here David's? Think about Uma Thurman. Okay, without the directors. Uma Thurman would not exist at this movie. Without the director this movie would not exist so I'm happy with that. I'm really like thinking about the firm and how wonderful she is as a person and an actress and a performer. I'm really tempted to go with a two you know, taking into account the the horrible Bane impersonation not even character that's not being no cosplay. And the fact that it may be one MFM is a step on me. I'm also happy with a two we're going with a two Yeah. I think this is gonna be a new record for the lovers. Oh, yeah, it is. Right screenplay then. Okay. I think this is a great point to mention. My ice pond counter. Cool. Go ahead. So ice puns by made by anyone else other than Arnie is for really an ice puns made by Arnie is 21 Oh my but there's a moment when he says hey, everyone chill and then he freezes to one and then he says Chill, chill. Three that's three separate that's three separate ones row Did you count in the the dry cleaning with delivery? Wow I also wrote I wish I made a list of all the poems because there's so there's so many off one that's so there's multiple ones about oh, I didn't know you hung out with this spot and like dangling fuck you movie like genuinely always winterize your pipes the dinosaurs the Ice Age. He needs to read up on history surely cuz I swear the meteor destroyed the literally the opposite of ice. It was flames. liquid hot magma. Oh, actually, I noticed that an era in the film one era. That's interesting. Was it a film being made? No. It's something that logically doesn't make sense. So he's got to be cold right? You know, he's Mr. Freeze he needs to be in sub zero temperature. When you see you know there's a scene where He's in his base and they're singing I'm Mr. White Christmas and stuff he's smoking a cigar yet he's smoking a cigar it's it's minus below in room and he's smoking a cigar How the fuck is that possible? Cuz it's so nice cigar I don't know it's it's done it's clearly on fire though. He just really wanted a cigar Yeah. To fire he will kill him even one degree more than like below zero it just likes the pain I think he just really wanted us to go he's like this scene is getting on long just to get through this. He's just really into it. He's a Maca is a masochist. I was gonna say yeah, it's just a masochist. Yeah, you're not gonna take a cigar off of it. You're like, it doesn't make sense for your character. Fuck you. You know, sometimes he puts his suit on plus one degree just to feel the burn the field he just he's a masochist. He really likes to play. I think right from the start you have this like big operatic reveal of the Batmobile. And like the first line of the film is I want to CAR Check stick the car from Robin I don't think it matters who you are from your first reaction is to act yeah yeah, I completely agree with that. But also what's great about that scene is it establishes that there kind of DC unit a shared universe going on that you didn't see. Yeah, George Clooney responds to that with this is why super works alone by oh what like when the fuck did Superman? Zack Zack Snyder WHERE IS WHERE IS IT? To make stop on Robin to some shit. I mean, Dick Grayson is so unlikable right from the start. He's always like whining it by Batman the whole time did great and feels more like the villain than the actual villains in this film at times is on honestly Yeah. I guess if there is a positive is of the story was like the mystery behind Alfred playing played by Michael golf is trying to like contact his brother Wilfred in India. So you can take over looking after Bruce and Dick, but he only really learn that that he's dying. Well over halfway through and of course he he has the same disease. McGregor syndrome as Mr. Free How convenient. Mr. Freeze is wise. Yeah, of course he does. Oh, how convenient that he actually has the stage one way, which is the only one that has a cure. But not at one moment that I think that he was going to die. And I think he was and I think if we knew Alfred was going to die sooner, the film could have explored more emotional scenes. We've taken Bruce rather than the stupid whining we get from Dec throughout the whole film. So it's just a weird decision. Why we didn't kind of learn that a lot earlier in the movie. Yeah, honestly, it would have made a lot more impactful. I completely forgot that Alfred was dying in this film. So I'd forgotten a lot of the plot. So when I was watching, I was like, hang on a minute did this for the boss to kill Alfred, is this where health died? And then at the end, you know, it's like, it seems like he's gonna die. And then he gets the cure from Mr. Freeze, and he's got a cure on him at the at that moment. Take two of these and call me in the morning a movie if they had the balls to just kill Alfred. Well, possibly Yeah, it would have been interesting development. So about that final scene though USA when he's got the cure on him. I always write whenever we watch a film and I make notes. I always like write a wrap up at the end about overall thoughts. And I wrote my overall thoughts and absolutely told this movie and you asshole. And then the most bizarre thing happens. I like to seen in this movie. Oh, so it's right at the end. And but like they've just defeated Mr. Freeze and his helmets off. And Mr. Freeze, like our kit would just kill me like he killed my wife and Batman's like, No, this is what happened to your wife. And he realises that he's been manipulated by poison ivy. Batman has this speech about like, you know, you're you were a good man. You just want to help your wife so help save another life today. And so you can continue your research, though it was a night it was a good performance from Ani and like just a really nice speech from Batman. It was like the fuck has just happened to you like I thought I hated this. Give me a nice moment here. It just feels like that's the only scene they had put in put into really thought of how Yeah, this is the first thing that they wrote and they'll just like right we've ran the end of the move. We need to start at the beginning of the middle and the rest. Oh, we've run out of time we got to shoot now. Oh shit. Give them a cigar. Yeah. Ice puns, right? I just write ice puns. There was another there was another line by Alfred that I quite liked. Just like at the end where you're like, wow, that's poignant. I can't believe this is in this movie of ice jokes and bat nipples and yeah, and hockey sticks and all that. But there's a bit where Bruce Wayne is saying, Alfred, am I pigheaded? Is it always my way or the highway? And I'd love Alfred's line because he's like, yes, actually, death chance stole your parents. But rather than become a victim, you have done everything in your power to control the fate for what is Batman, if not an effort to master the Sweeps are an attempt to control you like that was pretty deep. What is grief? If not love persevering? I thought you hated one division. Yeah. Yeah, that that is actually a poignant line. I just thought that that is a perfect summary of what Batman is. It's like him trying in vain to stop the chaos of the world from claiming a life like it claimed his power. And I just thought that was done so well. So they do understand Batman. Yeah, that's the that's a weird thing. Like for me, that line and the one you just said at the end are probably the only good lines. Well, I think one of the stupidest things in this film is when Alfred says to Barbara take this test to Wilfred and don't look at it. And of course she looks at it and finds the Batcave. And then you see Alfred on a monitor saying no word of a lie. I did read this. I expected you might find your way down here child. As such I programmed my brain algorithms into the back computer and created a virtual simulation. Yeah, yeah. If you thought she was always gonna find the Batcave. Why didn't you just tell her when you were when you were handing over the desk? Now everybody is watching this. I was like, everyone is so stupid in this film then on who Alfred is? Well it's just so disappointing. Nope, nobody has like a brain and just have nipples. That's the frustrating thing is just like Alfred's was the shining light of non stupidity but then he does this and it's like, Ah, just die inside. There's moments here that are just like obviously put in just adding extra scenes and extra excitement. Yes, a bike chase scene. Yeah, focus about I don't know why it happened or what consequence it had it just nothing. Nothing. Oh, it was just padding. You can completely cut that out and just and it would wouldn't change the story at all. It would be the exact same movie. Yeah, I think the only reason is because like Bat Girl has some ability. I guess. That's it. I think it's a show off that but also it's a train like get decade hurts become friendly. Yeah, but there's so many other ways you could have done that. And not a really shitty cringy fuckin motorbike chase scene. Like that was awful. Just have them go to dinner. Yeah, have them have a coffee or something. They don't have to be this high octane race where everybody nearly dies a molecule of the firm, where everyone's got neon lights, literally. And like before the chase starts there's a shot of a load of drugs from toxic orange. I'm like, What are you doing? Why are you in this film or get the fuck out? It's offensive to me that film was a masterpiece. What are you doing? Do you remember those gangsters that being kills all and they just painted in me on sculpt? And just me You're everywhere? Neon neon neon? What the hell was that? Why? I don't know. I think that was in trying to like capture the idea of like Tim Burton, we've all the colorfulness I think just you can explain a lot of the costumes in this in this movie. From the villains and the good guys as just toys making toys. That's just what it looks like. Like everything is designed to be a colourful action. Forget this movie is the he walks at the Batman family. I mean, am I wrong? This is literally like he walks were made specifically to make toys. Yeah, there's even an adverb in the dialogue. I mean, I feel like the filmmakers were just not confident this film would do well so they decided to do include their own acts. Yeah advertising in the scripts were poison ivy. Yeah. Every time and lover not a fighter. That's why every poison ivy action figure comes with complete with him and then Bain comes in and fights Batman. I'm just like, hang on. Have we gone back? So we gone to an advert here. Let's go. I genuinely fall bass heavy complete with hats. No, no, they don't come complete with hips but because the Moving on fighter hips makes a lot of sense. That's brilliant. To me so favourite lines people I have to I have to to official one properly one proper answer so my favourite is that weird scientist guy you had all the energy that kills poison ivy stop. I don't handle rejection well so I guess you'll have to die but the delivery is so good yeah that's incredible from John Glover's one that just sent me off the edge was when poison ivy and Mr. Freeze are deciding to rule the world. And she says yeah, we'll be the only two living creatures left and he says Adam and evil so bad fucking kill me just turn me off the Iceman come in that's well I'm still counting stay cool bird boy. What else we got? One of my favourites from mysteries I hated when people talk during the movie My jokey one is clear like what the diner says? Like, that's always a classic. But there's the final line that Mr Frese says in the movie when he's like in the cell. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I actually quite like that. It's like I'm your new set. I'm your new movie and I'm here to make your life a living hell that was cool. Yeah, when winter has commerce I'm sure like I was like that's actually kind of threatening. Yeah, like that's fucking cool. Like, what the shades maybe just pulled off is arts olive it's back. Back crack arts. There's one that's really weird from the two scientists in the observatory when they're like, you know, freezes just freezing everything up in a say it's just one of those days and like um, does your observer three get frozen often? I mean, why would you say that? Yeah, that's what I would have I'm actually like the A series of them I record shit like this happens all the time. Like they're constantly captured by the Joker or the reboiler or two. This happens every fucking day. Just have a seat come up these two sides. It's just go free shit. Yeah, every Batman village is constantly target. So my favourite line though, is a line that I think inspired Sacha Baron Cohen for Bora and it is when Mr Frese says that's very nice. Swain diamonds hmm, very nice. I watched this with my housemate and she said oh my god, he's that way you say that all the time. I genuinely like I was thinking like, did people say like this before Barack came out with the exact same quote. Like do you think that's a thing that happened? But they just said did it in an army impression instead? of Eastern European, but there is one more quote. That is absolutely horrendous, but I can't stop looking at it. I'm like IMDB for it. Yeah. When Batgirl introduced us I was like, bah, bah. Bah bah. fucky Batman. Makes no sense. Although, why did they write this joke? 25 years too early. What? In 97, they don't even know what PC means. Cries Bo as What's your favourite line? I would say my favourite like serious line is the one that I said from Alfred. Were just talking about how the symbol of Batman is to prevent that in chaos. Like that. I just thought that was a really cool. Script score. I think we should 3.5 or 1.5 I wasn't listening. 3.5 Wow, that's pretty. Yo, that's my truth. Well, I never tell David I just not ago. Cool. Great. Fantastic. That's great. That's great. I'm not even talking by socket. You said the second day. Yeah, yeah, let's go. Let's go through a man that's so low. Because it is truly dreadful. It is really bad or higher. 4.5 No, even in a structural sense, too, because stick is so shitty. Pretty bad, actually. Yeah, let's go. 3.5 All right. Well, yeah, okay. Maybe 3.8 3.8 or something. Okay. Yeah, I ain't given this more than a three but I can't I can't physically do it. No, I'm not either I say to again, how about How about how about 2.5? Because some of those poems will have taken a long time to think of No they didn't. They literally said what killed the dinosaurs? The Ice Age, they didn't even get that anatomically correct. So that already loses planes. Avec 2.5 Should we be in the middle of a two point break? So what what what was that? Hang on? This is a moment in history. And now I know 2.3 You're going with Okay, yeah, I'm fine with a two by three. That's five days. This will never happen on the main podcast. Right acting? Oh my god. Finally, Huma Thurmond. Fucking. She's awful. She's fucking terrible. She's hands down the worst actor in this whole movie. I couldn't agree more. To be honest. Every line is at art. Every single one of her line sounds like it's dubbed over because she's just she's. Oh, why did he do a full meltdown on the podcasts a Pulp Fiction money ran out? Yeah, my boy. George George Clooney. He's a good actor. Oh my god. Like Chris O'Donnell like we expect this from you. You're like, George Clooney and Huma Thurmond. This just like ruined them. I genuinely tried surely to think of an Uma Thurman a movie without Tarantino that even exists, let alone is good. Music Video. This is the start of it. And George Clooney, man like what a fucking awful way to start his movie career magazine. Like he are doing great jobs to movies. Yeah, I'm gonna be Batman. Nope. kills off the entire franchise. Oh, my bones. I'm so sorry. I just had to get that out. You know, he's still apologises for Batman Robin. He still apologises for it. And so he should. He should yeah, he should cut off his own nipples. Donate them. I feel so sorry for George Clooney in this film. I felt like he's been completely stitched up when signing on to this film. Because you can see George really phoning it in at times, especially in the batsu he certainly feels a lot more comfortable just as Bruce Wayne but I can imagine every time Joel Schumacher says cut Clooney just sighs and he's like, is it? Is it lunchtime now? No, it's tender age. You've been filming for like 10 minutes. This is the first the first scene of the day. Oh, yeah. This is the first day. I was gonna say my view like Alicia silsden. Yeah, like she's really bland. He just sounds really really bored. Almost every single person this film sounds really bored over the Narni Yeah, basically, she only gets one like corny line as well. Like, what was it? Your battery become compositor poison ivy. I must say I love Uma Thurman. You know, Pulp Fiction is one of our favourite films. But she is truly dreadful in this film. Like you said Xander, it's like so one note throughout the entire film, it becomes very tiresome towards the end. You know, we've talked about this a little bit, but there's a scene at the Botanical Gardens party where she decides to dress up as a giant pink gorilla as a disguise and starts doing this really weird dance and starts pulling the gloves off in this really sexual manner. And it's just not sexy. It's just hilarious. It's just I mean, it clearly is under. Listen, she's she's a body. She's a body, you know? I mean, like, do you mean the gorilla room? A fireman. But yes. All of the above. She she's an awful actress in this. She's absolutely awful. She's fine as hell. So I think she is so I am only a human performance score seven just because she's fine as hell green spandex does it for you. Something about thinking that just really do it for me. It's just the red hair. That's it. I think my favourite performance is Arnold Schwarzenegger though because he's just having the time of his life. It's like I spun off the iceberg. Yeah, yeah. Really going for it. He's even able to smoke a cigar. Yeah. To be phased costume is or it makes no sense. But his costume is awesome. I think. It looks cool. His costume looks proper. I really want that action figure. You just make a nice pan. It looks cool. That's really cool. I'm leaving. I'm done. I'm done. I'm out. I'm out. Boy. I'm out. Okay nice ponds down live guys on the just cool take a chill pill man. Thank you dangerously close to double digits. Hey guys. Alright, let's just break the ice just Yeah. I was trying desperately to think of another one I can tell that's why there's a silence I was like cold frosty Listen guys if you do another one of these jokes I'm gonna give you the cold shoulder. Hey, Jesus Christ you're so cold hearted. Thank you. Thank you favourite performance Sandow? What are you going for? You know what? It's, um, it's a really hard one. It is. Obviously, Arne is great. He does he does the best he possibly can in this because he is just having fun. Is is raring to go is his point. He's all into it. But I think favourite class to be. She's just so hilariously bad. She's just so like, really cool, and really, really trying. But in the worst way, there's like, there's a way of putting all your energy into a role. And Uma Thurman and Arne do it. Both of them go about it the exact same way, just with such different results. It's ridiculous. And they're both going for the same vibe. It's interesting. Does this film fall into the category? It's so bad? It's good? Yeah, I would say some scenes Yeah, some scenes do, but most of it doesn't. Anything with RNA is so bad. It's good to hear. Yeah, a secondary of a film is on screen. No, it's just get me the fuck out of here. That's why I was excited to see this movie again. I do. I do find humour Therma hilarious though. I do find that sort of unintentionally hilarious how just bizarre her acting is this? Just how Yeah, just how wild it is. So yeah, I you know, I wouldn't begrudge that. I was really excited to see this and that's why i That's why I mentioned I was like, this is a great excuse to short moment. Because I thought it's just gonna be so bad. It's good. I'm gonna sit down it's gonna be terrible, but we're gonna have a great time. And I just didn't I just honestly by the end I was like, kill me like just end it right now. Both of my housemates left one left on our in the other left half an hour before the end. She was like I physically cannot do this anymore. I was so tired. I tried grabbing onto a leg I was like, Please don't leave me. Don't leave me to do this on my own. Please. start dragging me down the hallway. Please. Just a quick questions under did you use the 4k? steelbook I got you know I've got the really Yeah, David. Yeah, David's are sick fuck. me this. 4k still but he spent like 30 quid on it. I don't know why. Jesus, it was first birthday bought what the hell is wrong with you? You must be fucking loaded, man. I'm not at all. I spent way too much on David didn't eat for a week. I did also get him a Lego Iron Man like helmet. He got me this Ready Player to on hardback signed edition. I've not read that one yet. I pre ordered it because he was very excited for it. And they turned out it was terrible. Farley is fucking awful book, isn't it? I've read the first one. It was fine. First one is incredible. I love the first one so much. But the power of the second one is just like as if you put the entire first book and the script of the first film into an AI generator. And then it just shot is just shattered. And you just went in the autocorrected Oh, God. So not good. No, no, no good. And so David decided to get me by when and Robin Yeah, I spent 30 quid on a full case steelbook of Batman and Robin. And you know what? But it's worth it to see his reaction for anywhere. What's your favourite performance? And David? My favourite form is genuinely probably his honour. He's like, got some gems. Geez, I'm gonna love good time. Like when he's having a good time. You have a good time. Like when the actors are having fun with the role. You will even if the film is shit, you're still gonna have fun with the role, because you're just like, Oh, they're clearly having a good time though. Give I'll give him that. Yeah, and we've only like whenever he does a little pod you can always see like that Smiley's got, it's real. But yeah, so 100% On a bow as What's your favourite performance? I'm gonna sound like a broken record here. But yeah, I do agree, I think my favourite in this film, the only one I ever think about when I think about this film, and I agree He's just having a very good title. And I think he's, you know, his joy of the role. You know, it does bring a smile to your face even though you know, his character is crap and his lines are laughable, but you know, he's having fun and you feel that so? So acting score buyers. I'm thinking like a 5.8 Possibly, or is that too high? That's Zander's lucky like what the fuck you'd say. Literally just like on the in there. I mean, Michael Michael golf does bring some respect to the film a tiny smidgen but yeah, I did. I kinda Yeah. So this the guy plays outfit right? Yeah Michael golf. Yeah. AKA no no names bias carry. Yeah, he's always pretty good. I don't know why I keep forgetting about he's utilised in the film as much as he is in some years. So 5.8 Possibly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You guys are fucking crazy. icon. I'm really struggling to get over like a three. Really? Honestly, I was gonna say about three or four you're gonna say four so I was gonna say me in the middle but yeah, I'm saying free because Bane alone paces me off. Yeah, no brain is terrible. The existence of being this movie physically annoys Yeah, I'm just shocked Yeah, you are not Groot. You will not hold off shocks I would say they did basically all the villains dirty like from a you know, right thing standpoint. They're just really bad. Yeah, like at least Mr. Freeze? Like there was a bit of fun with him. Xander shall we say free will go through free right let's add up what little scores Batman and Robin has got. While you do that? Am I right to read out some of the other things I wrote down I didn't get to say gone yet. Go for it. So the jewel the poison ivy tries to take when when Batman and Robin try and bid for her. It's called the heart of ISIS. Just wanted to put that one out there for the feelers out. See how we feel about that one? Gotham City now has these giant Greek like statues in the middle of all the buildings. That's weird. ISIS is a terrorist group no flies on bow was no it was an ice. Ice Ice ISIS you know? Do you guys remember the CGI Tia that AMI sheds when his wife dies? Yes. Yeah, yeah, remember the one that funnel snaps away? fucking awful. Did they run out of onions or something? What's good? And then as like my final thought, like I always do, I wrote. I always thought that this movie had a corny charm to it. That it was campy, but fun. This isn't fun. This is genuinely just awful. There is nothing remotely fun about this movie. It's just abysmal. The writing is awful. The plot is nonsensical. The direction is appalling and the acting is truly laughable. Even down to the smaller aspects like the CGI and set design. The movie still falters, it astonishes me how so many mistakes could have been made on a single project. It's no wonder the Batman franchise went into hiding for nearly a decade after this. Everyone involved should be truly ashamed. And I'll die a happy mom if I never have to watch this garbage movie ever again. To our 10 I miss Tim Burton. Write this score for Batman and Robin is 22.4 out of 60 That's way too high. Fantastic. I fucking max. So obviously Batman Returns wipes the floor with Batman and Robin. I think you think it should be even in double digits. No, it shouldn't. It should be about the max out of 16 should be is still free. So next week as the last city is out. So we're talking Sandra Bullock films. Xander and David from the film podcast. You have been amazing. Thanks, guys for coming on. You've been amazing. Thank you for having us on it. Thank you so much for having us. I'm sorry, we we took up so much of your afternoon. We were not expecting it. All right, where can we find you? What's your handles? A can find us on Apple, Spotify and Amazon music you can vitals anywhere really. I didn't realise how many podcast apps the word Jesus, but yet you can find this literally anywhere. We're filming a podcast, we've got the orange logo. We have we try and have a lot of fun. Cool. Yeah, we're also on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and gonna be like we're on Tik Tok. But we're not really like uploading on air right now. But we're gonna get started. I'm not saying you guys are more than welcome to join us anytime you want. Because we've added we've added so much one here today. We've had so much fun. Yeah, cool. And of course, thank you bow as you can now put your duct tape away. It's fine. We finished the ice gun down the Iceman come and go, Sue. Oh, that's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like to find out more about the podcast or suggest future topics for us to discuss related to upcoming releases. Let us know on Instagram at film versus film podcast and on Twitter at fVf underscore podcast. Remember, please subscribe pod signing off