Roland Emmerich Films - The Day After Tomorrow vs Midway

This week on the pod as the moon is falling to earth and somehow tentacles are involved in, spoilers in Moonfall. The director behind Moonfall is of course the German CGI king, Roland Emmerich. So we will be picking our favourite films from his work.

Warning we will be talking SPOILERS.

Martins pick for this week is the film that started the return of the disaster film genre, The Day After Tomorrow. On this one we talk about the scenes that probably shouldn't be funny. We discuss why this film has something against Scotland. IMDB page   

Boaz's pick for this week is of a war film Midway. We talk about how much this film crams into a single film and whether this story should be a film or a TV show. We have another CGI vs practical effects debate and why we thought the Japanese side of things was the more compelling. IMDB page    

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Transcript

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Hello film fans welcome to the film versus film podcast. My name is Martin Harries your host and I'm joined by the filmic Cyclopedia man pious Dix. We are a couple of filmmakers on occasion but mainly Can't Stop yapping about movies. On this podcast every episode, we pick a topic from a film that's coming out at the cinema, or on VOD, myself and buyers pick our favourite film from that topic, and we battle out to decide which film will become the greatest film of all time. According to two film geeks from Wiltshire, England, if you enjoy this podcast please leave us a review and subscribe Hello Potter Rooney's Welcome to the film versus film podcast this week as a film is coming out where the moon falls. And it's called Moon fall. Yeah, spoilers. Sorry, spoilers in the title for that one. What is the world coming to? Yes. So we'll be focusing on that film filmmaker. And that man, of course is the German Roland Emmerich. And as ever, I am joined by our local historian, Byers. DIX, how are you? I'm fine. Thanks. Excellent. Should we go my film person? Yeah, my film is the day after tomorrow. Why did I pick this one? Well, the bar was quite. Joyce's says, I mean, Independence Day is the obvious one. You know, I do really love that film. But a lot has been said about that. So I thought it'd be silly to pick that one. You know, it's great. Even though you kind of just forget that a computer virus takes down an alien mothership. But there we go. Definitely, I think it's the best product placement in any film ever. Windows, even aliens use Windows. Windows? Well, the world. So I went with the day after tomorrow, I was really looking forward to this film when it came out. But way back when in 2004. Yeah, I really enjoyed it at the time. I really enjoyed it at the time. And it was kind of this resurgence of like the big disaster film and being like, massive, destroy everything films. I think this was kind of one of the first ones like you had independent stay already. But that, you know, that was a lot of model work in that whereas this was full CGI. May. The first Well, one of the first ones to do Yeah. And then I remember straight up off of the back of this, I was hugely excited when this film came out. We talked about it constantly used to watch it a lot. And yeah, man, it just felt like such an insane event. And you're right, it did just crack out loads and loads of huge disaster movies. I think there was that one core with the earth's core that came out not long after that. And all kinds of ones you know, even going up to you know, San Andreas with the rock and stuff. So there's been loads of like really big disaster movies, I think coming off the back of this. So what happens in the day after tomorrow? Well, we follow a scientist, a weather dude course, Jack Hall, played by Dennis Quaid, and he's basically hosting this, like environmental press conference to world leaders and saying that, you know, if we don't act now on climate change, we're all screwed or whatever. And, you know, we could end up in the next Ice Age. But at the start, he thinks, you know, this could happen in like 3050 years time. But then things start happening like see boys drop their temperature, about like 13 degrees or something. And meanwhile, his son Sam Hall, played by Jake Gyllenhaal and his friends. They go on like a school quiz in New York. And basically, they get trapped in New York. And it's basically a survival film for them as these three massive Supercell storms completely cover the globe. And great then the new ice age and then Jacques Hall. And friends try and save as, basically, whilst always trying to convince, you know, the US government to evacuate the northern states as well. So it's quite a simple story really, of survival. And it's, it's entertaining. Let's play where they you know, you believe the science is accurate? Probably not. It's still a lot of fun to me. So what do you make of this one then bounce? Yeah, so I think, you know, even after all these years, it's, it's still pretty cool. I do have like some issues with, like the CGI. And I think maybe it's just, you know, it's just the fact that it's of its time and what have you like some of it does look a little like it hasn't held up that well. But there are scenes which still do look pretty fucking amazing. So directing then. I do feel like this film has a very anti Scotland like this, the Scottish ocean weather base, all those characters who are in it, not one of them are Scottish. And they're not even attempting to do a Scottish accent plus the football game that guy is watching is Celtic versus may united and Celtic illusion. And it's the first country to freeze as well. I'm like Roland Emmerich must have something against Scotland really fucking hates the skirts. I don't know. Like an ex wife or something Scottish? I just found that quite. I mean, it's kind of being getting what did they do? They must just couldn't find found any decent Scottish act. Yes. I don't know. It's kind of interesting. Actually. What was it? Even the the helicopters that go down over Scotland? None of the crew was Scottish either. Yeah. Really? Yeah, there's no Scots. A lot of stuff happens in Scotland. Yeah, it just kind of clicked on this rewatch. The tornado sequence is quite fun where this film is clearly set nev universe where the movie Twister doesn't. And, and a lot of the deaths are quite unintentionally funny. Especially when a news reporter says if you look over there behind me, there's a tornado. I'm like, oh, okay, we're all the destruction is happening where everyone is running away from and you should probably be running away from too. Thank you for pointing that out. No shit. Looks like it's 15 feet in front of you. Yeah. The fuck out of a moron. And of course, it gets swatted by a giant billboard. I think that's probably my favourite shot at the entire film. I don't know why but I do find it like amusing and some sort of sick. perverse. Why? Because it's just like, you know, it's like, oh, man, it's a it's a storm. Jesus. Isn't this crazy? Wouldn't it be bad if something happened to me? You fool. God dammit. Yeah. But I did like the reveal of of the clean opening the door after the tornadoes have passed. And half the building is just gone. That was that was a great visual. Yeah, it was really awesome. I quite like the sequence where the three British helicopters crashed land and like one of the pilots opens the door and he freezes to death instantly. I know rapid freezing and probably is impossible. But it looks great. It does look cool. You know, if they were going down the more real realistic route the film would be like really boring and long. So I really didn't mind the narrative choice say it works brilliantly, you know, quite near the end in the New York library with that sequence I quite liked when New York's gonna get hit by a giant wave. And you have that long shot, you know, really far in the distance of you know, the Statue of Liberty and wave just going right up up to the you know, the neck basically of it. That was cool. Yeah, that's my favourite shot. My favourite sequence actually, Sam Hall play by Jake John Hall and friends decided to leave this guy's really nice apartment, which is really high half. Which seems a bit stupid. But hey, and you have these, as you said, like great shots of waves ploughing through New York. And the Statue of Liberty doesn't get destroyed for once, which I thought was a nice, nice and considerate of the filmmakers not to destroy. But I love the shot where the camera is almost riding the waves as the water approaches the characters in the library that that was really, really cool. When it's going over the bus, you know, the guy's in the bus and stuff. But that was pretty cool. Yeah, where everybody's just running like hell and you get the camera you know from the bus and the bus driver and they're like, What the fuck is going on? And everybody's like clambering down their bus and off of other cars and they're like What on earth is going on? And he looks at like his wind mirror and you're like oh shit just so close up of him with swept away the ship going into you know, into the city just like there's there's a fucking ship in the city. Yeah. Yeah, cool. I really liked how even that was directed because the scale of it. It does look pretty huge. Like there's a really giant ship just moving through the alley. Pretty cool. A whole sequence with When they're going to actually save his son and they fall through a some building, or whatever, and you know, his friend has to say, because he's dragging them all down. Oh yeah, that was really cool. I always like it in scenes where like glass is cracking like it just creates great suspense immediately. Plus great touches of subtle slow motion as Frank falls. And on Dennis Quaid reaction. Great, slow motion there. I did like that sequence a lot as well. Yeah. If you got a favourite sequence. Yeah, probably favourite shot or whatever is that report of being hit by a billboard directing score What you going for? Yeah, man, I think I think it's entertaining enough. I know maybe like, like an eight. I felt like with his films, there's not much fat on the bones, you know, of his films. There's always something happening bit massive scale or quite small scale. And I think you have that here. I think certainly Roland Emmerich these days does go with CGI. Scale a bit too much. Sometimes. I think that's definitely the case of Midway. But obviously with this, you can't really create those big spectacles without it, obviously. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. You know, even though it's a big disaster film, it's a lot of fun. So I'll go like 7.8 I think if I would say my, my, my least favourite visual effect, because I said like some of the CGI is pretty spotty. But as many of the scenes we've just said, those are like, you know, really good. Effects. Great, you know, set pieces. I think one of my least favourite is actually you know, where they're getting chased by the wolves. Because just I don't know, either. Whoo. It's just kind of weird. It's just like, every time they come really close, you're like, what? That whole scene almost felt like it was playing homage to Jurassic Park and the velociraptors. And I thought it was pretty good, but maybe they should have stuck with some, like, I don't know, tried to make it practical in some way because I don't think the wolves looked that great. Yeah, I think they certainly tried to hide it with with making a lot of those scenes look quite dark. If you notice a lot of the walls are in like shadow. Yes. So they're not in very good lighting. And I think you could tell that yeah, the effects at that time were not great for like for various friends screenplay in. I quite like the sense of like impending doom in this film and never really lets up. There's always some sort of like, rumble of dangerous weather happening. You know, the turbulence on the aeroplane and Jake Gyllenhaal is on with his friends, making a food cart go through the plane looks scary. You know, nearly hitting that air stewardess for ocean buoys dropping in degrees, with the great acting for me and home, the hundreds of birds arriving in New York. But quite early on in this film, there's a scene in Japan where the hailstones are the size of bowling balls. It's a great looking scene, but we never come back to it. We see large hailstones again briefly. But it just felt that the filmmakers were like, well, we need to see now outside of America and the UK to make it feel more global. But the Japan scene was like less than three minutes, it felt like it just felt like they were like checking off a list to make the film feel global. Like, right, that's that scene done. Let's go back to America where all the good shit happens. I felt like it was a shame and a little cynical that we never go back to Japan, to be honest. Well, I think if they had, you know, if you're going to do something like that, and at least in all the other areas, there is some major character that is like located there. So, you know, otherwise, yeah, that scene is a bit off. It just comes out of nowhere. I think you're right, it is to make you feel like, Oh, this is happening, everybody. And it's equally horrible. But it's like, I don't know, it's not that connected with the plot or the flow. It is it is sort of a strange thing. I think maybe it's meant to make you think maybe this Japanese guy is going to be a main character. And then he does because a lot of people don't. But I think it it is kind of a waste of a scene, maybe they could have linked it into a lot more, then it would have even been more memorable. Otherwise, you know, you think? Yeah, and then there was this this bit where some random guy got killed in Japan. I mean, this film definitely starts off like this film is going to be a multiple storyline type film. Like, you know, love actually was for the romantic genre for the rom com genre. But you know, this was going to be the the big multi storyline film for the disaster film, but it never really turns out that way. It mainly just ends up being Jack Cole and Sam Hall story, you know, and everything else gets left behind. So I feel like the film should have been a lot longer. Like, you know that very short Japanese scene there are a few storylines that just don't get enough screen time to care about like, Peter, the kid with cancer just doesn't get enough screen time to care about, like the President even dies off screen, which was very anticlimactic. The ending for me feels quite epic, mainly because of the amazing score. But imagine if the those storylines got more love. This film would have been incredibly epic today if if it was a lot longer. And those storylines got more screentime. Yeah, no, I agree with that. That makes a lot of sense. And I feel like the suspense sequence with the three guys on the tank, being chased by the wolves was a tad rushed. But I seem forgot about that. Because Sam realises that they're in the eye of the storm, and the temperature is starting to fall rapidly. So they have to get back to the library library, like right now. But what's great about it is that Jack is in the same eye of the storm. And both scenes cut together like really nicely to create like great suspense. And I like the fact that they both close the doors, a paradores. And the and the freeze keeps coming. But what's really interesting from a script point of view is that we only see like Jack and Jason have survived and not the other characters in New York. You know, we have to wait a good light 15 to 20 minutes to see if they've survived or not, which I thought was a great way to end the film. Because for for at least a split second. You're like, oh, shit, did Sam survive? But of course they do. But you know, it had me fooled for like, half a year. But I like the idea there though. Yeah, no, I think that was good. I mean, it makes good reveal when they finally do get into the library. Sorry, Hollywood ending, but yeah, no, I definitely like that. Because with the freezing, I kind of even forgot about that. Like, because I know that it freezes and they get in the library and I thought, I seem to just remember, okay, yeah. And then they were safe. But I love how like the ice is literally chasing them down the hall because it's going down the walls is the ceiling everything like there is no escape. And you know, they close the door and it just keeps coming. Yeah, that was pretty freaky. Well I do like about this film is the fact that it is just a pure survival disaster film. There's no attempt to create like a giant radiator to reheat the air or something. There's no mad scientist who's created like a weather machine to stop the super cells. Now we just follow these characters and see if they survive or not. That's it. You know? Yes, the dialogue is very on the nose. The store the love story is rubbish. I just like the fact that there's just this very simple survive or die aspect of the film. I feel like there must have been like a conversation with a producer and Roland Emmerich like an Emmerich saying, but what if aliens come out of the storm? And no. No, no aliens? I can imagine that happening in pre production. I wonder I want to see that film this independent really? Yeah, that'd be great. I mean, we're getting moon falls. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, there's some good lines. Why for the love of God, would you aggravate the vice president because my 17 year old son nodes knows more science than he does. One of my favourite moments. Just before the guys in Scotland I you know, the Generate is failing in Scotland and Adrian Lester finds a bottle of whiskey and says, Hey, is there any chance that this will work? You know, it will run on this. And then Holmes says, Are you mad? That's a 12 year old Scottish, then reveals like the theory glasses. I thought that was just a lovely moment to end their scenes. You can't burn books. No, absolutely. You want to freeze to death? I was fun. You got a favourite line then? Probably the Scotch one. There was that amusing one where they were arguing about whether to burn Nietzsche? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's funny. He was He goes no, not Nietzsche. Why? He's a chauvinist pig. What does he say? Like you cheated on? cheated on his wife. Listen, he was in love. His sister is like he was not a chauvinist pig but he was in love with his sister. The other one is just like yeah listen this and law books that we can still genius Yeah, the other guy says excuse me, you guys there's a whole section on tax law down here that we can borrow screenplays, score Bowers, what you're going for? For the day after tomorrow? Which is? Yeah, they after yesterday is today, which is Sunday. It is. I'm a genius. So it's gonna be a lot work seven point a very good screenplay score for me. You know, I like the fact that is quite simple that it's basically you know, survival film and, and kind of becomes like a rescue film at the end. The dialogue is very on the nose. There's a few love stories there that just don't work at all I don't think I mean the acting is okay in those moments but the dialogues, Roland Emmerich doesn't do dialogue very well. Or she'd literally hired writers that do better dialogue because his dialogue is, it's not great. I know there's all this talk that in this film, the science is probably not very accurate, but I don't really mind. I mean, I love the fast freezing stuff. Because it makes it just makes for a good film in those moments. Even though it's probably not possible. I'll go like 7.6 I think, acting then I love the acting from in home ways trying to like cheer up his colleagues and says, luckily, we've got our own journey. And enough tea and biscuits to sink a ship will be fine. As long as the loo doesn't back up again. They all laugh a little bit and then one of one by one. Their faces drop like Yeah, well. But Ian home is the best one because he looks terrified and he's hardly doing anything. And it's just brilliant acting again. He's on the phone to Dennis Quaid, and they find out that they're going into a new ice age. And the acting just goes up up a notch on that phone call. In home, it's just, uh, just great in this film, I think yeah, definitely. I like that homeless guy. I thought he was nice. It's cool. Yeah. And his dog. I'm so glad the dog didn't die. I was like the dog live thing. Thank dog. I mean, that is one good thing the rolling Emmerich is good at is directing dogs. Like there's that great moment in Independence Day where? Oh, yeah, we're dog jumps away from the explosion. And then in this one, the talk runs quickly to him as the freeze comes in. You know, when they're all by the fire, that was cool. That was a good moment. I think my favourite Dennis Quaid moment is when he's on the phone to his son Sam. And the water level keeps going up and up on Sam in the library. When Dennis Quaid says I will come for you son. He always gives me chills a bit because you get the reaction from Salah Wars is why so cold and the bloody movie. And he's like what? And you get no real inkling that he's going to go after him. It's just the first great emotional moment in the film for me from Dennis Quaid favourite performance for me in this film is in home I just think he's just a great subtle actor and one of our just great actors from from this country and he's sorely missed in my opinion. Viet just brings great heart to this film. Who's your favourite performance? Yeah, I think I'll agree with you actually. Acting score Bowers. What you get him for? Go 7.6 I mean, the acting is fine. You know, even home definitely bring some great subtlety to it. I don't think everyone else does amazing work. They just good to know. So I'll go like 7.7 wireless and at the schools then for the day after tomorrow. The day after tomorrow gets 39.5 so not amazing. But I still like it. It's a good guilty pleasure. Yeah, it's watchable. It's it's it's nice. I don't mean it like that. But to me. Right, Mr. Historian bow asked next. What was your pick for Roland Emmerich films. I went with midway, slash slash, slash islands. A lot, a lot. A lot of shit. Yeah. This is essentially the first six months of the Pacific theatre of World War Two. It's like literally the first six months. And then, and then midway. So why did you pick this one? One? I mean, I've heard of it for a little bit. And I've kind of wanted to watch it for some time. Despite the criticisms of it. I've heard it's actually pretty historically accurate. So that's another thing I've I've always kind of wanted to to see. And you know, I just love World War Two. absolutely obsessed with you know, the Second World War. You know, so any any chance to just is it like every subject you're like, Oh, is there a war film? Yeah, yes, there is this week. As a world war two film. I can fake it. Yes. All right. Let's go Yeah, I was pretty interested in this to see how Roland Emmerich does because obviously, as we've said in day after tomorrow, you know, the bar is pretty low when it comes to Roland Emmerich films. So it was interesting watching this. I feel like this is a classic case of cramming way too much into a two hour film. I think this is a case of this is probably better as a TV show than a film. Yeah, I think Miniseries or something. But obviously, you need a film's budget to pull off these action scenes. So oh, I don't think that's true at all. I don't even think that's even slightly slightly to how well you know, if it's HBO then yeah, I mean, yeah. HBO, I would even say that Netflix almost for sure. Because they'll fund literally anything. But yeah, if you're talking about regular TV, yeah, sure. But, you know, nowadays, I mean, come on, you know, AMC, they've got the clout, yeah. To, to afford something like that, or Disney. So I'm afraid to ask this question. I'm gonna like, you know, tone it down quite a bit, well, actually begins with the US Ambassador to Japan. Well, he's not the ambassador of Japan. He's like the intelligence officer, chief intelligence officer of the United States Navy, he visits Japan, and he talks to Admiral Yamamoto, who will be like, you know, his arch enemy, I suppose, about the possibility of war between Japan and America. And then he leaves and he's been constantly telling the Navy that, you know, he reckons they're going to attack Pearl Harbour. And that's where the film kind of properly begins during the attack on Pearl Harbour, I would say the main character that I do think there, you know, obviously, without question is a main character. And that would be pilot Dickie. Dickie, best play by Ed scrying. Yeah, he seems to be involved in a lot of the actions, you know, on the ground, where the, you know, he also goes through like the admirals and intelligence guys and on both navies for quite some time. So it basically goes from Pearl Harbour, to the raid on the marsh, the Marshall Islands, to the attack on Tokyo, the Doolittle Raid. And all of this sets up for finally the Battle of Midway. Yeah, which is, you know, close fought, but it becomes an American victory. And it's the the turning point in the, in the war against Japan, basically, where it's decisively in America's favour, despite, you know, at the beginning, it's not going for the good for them at all. So what did you make of this one? You like the historical accuracy? Or did they cram too much in for you, or I actually do like the historical accuracy, it's just an attention to detail. I know, like, you know, obviously, it doesn't give you a lot of time to learn about these characters as just as just like characters, and you're cramming quite a lot of info. But I kind of did like that I did like that. They're, they're really going through, you know, debriefing rooms, and, and going through all of all of the minutiae of like, this is happening, this is happening, and that's happening. And even during the battle to get the times exactly right, you know, like they constantly put on a car. This happened at this exact time. Yeah, there's a lot of title cards, where they're trying to get as many things close to the truth as possible, which I think also means, you know, there are quite a lot of characters. I do think though, you know, Dicky best is definitely the most realised one because you're around him a lot. Yeah, but there are quite a lot of people around bit parts that are quite a lot of bit parts. I do kind of appreciate that. It is it's kind of a bit much for a two hour movie. However, I do respect that these are many different individual men that they they're all like, you know, he did this and he did this, rather than most screenwriters which would do which was would be to make composite characters. That's what most screenwriters would do in this situation, you would say you take five or six actions that some of these guys did, and you just say, yeah, one guy did this, but they don't really want to do that. Which is a brave thing to do. I would say it is a brave thing to do. Because again, it's it's a lot of shit to keep track of, you know, and God knows I don't remember people that that died and that they they mourn over I've got no I did. I know I saw a lot of characters. I'm not sure. I really remember too many, but you know, so it is a very brave thing for them to do to try and cram into a movie. You got to respect them for that. So directing then the attack on Pearl Harbour kind of happens with like, no suspense at all. You know, the US Navy, sailors only notice them as they're right on them, which I found a bit odd then all the shops are kind of just filled with planes, ships, bullets and explosions. more planes, ships, bullets and explosions. You know, not to say that's a bad thing. But you know, it's just really intense stuff, which I quite liked. But the sound that was really intense like my subwoofer went into overdrive, like the, you know, like the Japanese have speakers do with this massive drone? Yeah, I was gonna come out of the screen as hell is going on. You know, I felt like checking my door to see if there are actual Japanese outside. Yeah. Yeah. So loud. It was on the normal volume, you know, they really just rub that stuff up. I did kind of like that it sort of came out of nowhere, because I suppose you know that that would be the experience. It's both a good and a bad thing. Like it would have been cool if there was some suspensive I don't know when it's gonna happen. And then it happens rather than what's going on here. Oh, where am I? Oh, shit. All right. Everybody's dying. All right. Okay, I see I see what's going on. I know is kind of the point of that. I get that but it's done in a lot. Like a lot of wide shots like this. When they see them. There's a big wide shot and like loads of Japanese zeros coming in. Like if you're not here that you know, hear these hundreds of planes going towards earlier. But I must say though the fire CGI wasn't great, especially in like the tire shots on the actors. And you're like, yeah, they're on a soundstage with green screen all around them. It didn't look terribly convincing. Yeah, it was kind of a shame as well. Because you know that the ship basically splits in half and they've got to climb the rope and his hands are burning and all that and ships on fire. I think you're right, you know, you're like, Man, this this does look a bit iffy. I think what's kind of strange is I would say this film more so than the day after tomorrow has a lot where it's a lot of CGI, there's so much CGI. And just like I said before or poorly it's like I just said before, it's like even with that there was spotty CGI in the previous film that there's quite a lot of spotty CGI on this one. You're like oh man, you know that that plane looks odd You know damn those bombs look strange that explosion looks off it's like it there is quite a low dislike like explosions in water was dodgy as like maybe this could have used you know a few a few minutes in the in the oven. Yeah. I thought the the overall CGI of the plant the you know the carriers, the battleships and the aircraft are actually quite good. I quite like those the CGI on the on the actual vehicles. There's just like, explosions and stuff like that, which were weren't amazing. I kind of felt like damaged planes looked a bit off. So for example, during the Marshall Islands thing where he slices a bomber in half, and the bomber crashes onto the deck. I don't know that that seemed a bit weird. I can't put my put my hand on exactly why it seems weird. I just know, it seems weird. And or when the plane was, you know, they had a death during training. And he fell off of the ship and then the ship hit into the plane. That again looked a bit strange. So I don't know what it is. Maybe it's maybe it's just that whatever just destroyed. Planes look at look a bit odd. Yeah, funny you say that I it may have looked a bit CGI ropey, but I actually appreciate it those scenes where where a rookie pilot has emitted Dick best that he has lost his confidence as a pilot. So they go out on like a scouting mission, but the pilot is killed because he couldn't take off properly and, you know, falls off the end of the ship, as you said, and the plane gets run down by the carrier. And a few scenes later, you see a plane like crash land on the carrion slides off the side. And I would imagine a lot of war films wouldn't show those types of deaths because it's not very cinematic. And they don't want to see their country in a bad light. But again, it just shows historical accuracy. And it just shows that, you know, the aircraft carriers were like a really dangerous place to be during that time. And this technology was fairly new at that time and not well tested. Is that Is that right? Yeah, I think that would be a great assessment of it. Nobody really knew the full Cape capabilities of an aircraft carrier until you know, these fleet actions, you know, yeah, I just really liked the fact that they included that whereas a lot of filmmakers I don't think that they would just to show that. Literally just landing and taking off is really dangerous, not just the actual dogfights you know, the actual battle of middle way was pretty thrilling, but I had a few problems with it. I feel like the whole battle was a little unfocused. It's like a random American submarine with characters that We've never met before. When they get depth charged, I didn't care much for them because they were so detached from the rest of the story. You've literally just met them. You know, you have two different squadrons doing torpedo runs, which visually looked exactly the same while trying to work out who they who these garden guys are again. Oh, they're dead. Oh, well. And you have all all that before we get to Luke Evans and Ed strines characters who I could remember but again, visually, their attacks felt very samey. You know, they start their dive bombing. And there's the cockpit shot, then your bird's eye view shot is literally that each dive POM time and time again, as grinds dive had some variation though. Yeah. And and, and constant switches between them. And the the spotter who was counting down? It's 2001. This Yeah, the altitude, you know, I mean, yeah, the first, this Yeah, that does that seem does play out exactly the same several times. So you're like, oh, yeah, it's kind of it's starting to lose. It's in fact, you know, maybe the OB like, you know, Pamela it kind of just didn't change up the rhythm of it. It just felt a bit visually uninspired. And they didn't really know how else to direct those action scenes. But they do change it up a bit with Ed screens dive with some variation, you know, you have this binocular shot from the Japanese officer on the on the carrier, he sees the dive bomber coming then out of nowhere the bomb appears in the foreground, that was pretty cool. And strines plane like because he goes beyond the one at altitude and then you know, pulls up really late. You know, he's playing clips the water as he pulls up, I thought that was really cool. Ultimately, it lacked some visual flares me a lot for with a lot of dive bombs before that, you know, I'm not I'm not surprised that the last attack was so short, because it felt like they just run out of ideas of how to shoot differently. When best destroys, yes, carrier. I think they try to get it a little different because he is quite close to the ship. So I think it's meant to be did he survive, because obviously they play with that. And then he's, he's still alive. So they do have him pull off really late. You know, it's almost like, you know, maybe he's actually been gotten by, oh, I liked when Tokyo was getting attacked. During the Doolittle Raid, I thought that shot pretty well, where the Emperor's palace is literally shaking, and people are wandering around like, oh, shit, and they tell the emperor, you know, your Majesty, we need to get you to a bunker. And he's like, What the fuck? And how he kind of looks across, you know, the the palace. And you see bombers smacking Tokyo do to do the runs across? Let's get the hell out. I thought that that looked pretty cool. They could have done that from, you know, the bombers point of view and actually set that all up. But you know, I liked that they tried. They, they decided to do it from what was the emperor seeing at that point? You know, and that's pretty cool. He I liked that stuff. But I feel like that's the type of thing that they could have just had one of the American soldiers just say, Oh, they were successful in bombing Tokyo or whatever. And not, I don't feel like you needed to see it in this film. You know, I know they're trying to feel they're trying to film like a really important an event in American history. But it does feel very detached those scenes to the Battle of Midway to me, yeah, I do feel they are trying to cover quite a lot of ground. You know, I do appreciate that it shown is the point I'm making and that all of these events have shown. Yeah, I do agree on like, I don't agree on on a visual level, I think, you know, visually, very nice to have more scenes. You know, so from like, directing standpoint, I appreciate all the extra scenes, I think you're more close to the mark on a kind of writing standpoint of just, yeah, there's quite a lot going on here. And maybe you could make up characters who are friends have characters so that they can all be somewhat, you know, so maybe like the movie Pearl Harbour, which wasn't historically accurate, like at all, but the fact is, they they did many things, they did Pearl Harbour and many battles afterwards and other things, but they kind of tried to bind these together by having characters do things they had no rights, being able to do, you know, like, lawyer was a because actually the Doolittle Raid I remember, he was part of that, which he wouldn't have possibly be part of that. You can't be in the Navy and then in the army, you know, that's just not working. Do you feel like they made this film because of the reaction to the Pearl Harbour film? Yeah, I think yeah, I think think, like, what was it? Cuz, you know, like all these history stuff. And guys that go over Pearl Harbour if they've even got like a passing knowledge of history, they tear the shit in the Pearl Harbour like anybody that gets their history from movies, I think you should rethink what you're doing. First of all, like, you know, movie can't really be there. But yeah, I think a lot of people got, you know, plenty of misconceptions on the history of the Pacific War from Pearl Harbour. So I think he was trying to like, Okay, I'm doing a midway film. But while I'm here, I might as well backtrack and kind of get a few things correct. Yeah, music to do everything. Actually, I really love the way they ended this film, we have like a little scene for each character, then you have like a freeze frame go into a sepia tone, a bit of text of historical facts come up, which is really nice to read. And really horrible to read with some, then like a picture of the real person is dissolved into, you know, like the fact that they took their time to do that for each person showing some real respect to these real people. And I've never really seen that done before it like a credit sequence in a film. You know, it literally takes like a good 15 minutes to go through all these characters and I really appreciated that. That was actually probably my favourite scenes was the credit scene to reefer. Yeah, I thought it was great. I think my favourite scene though, other than the credit scene was the battle on the Marshall Islands. They weirdly starts with like a comical moment where the fight is like drop a torpedo into the water. And the camera follows the torpedo all the way to the hull of a Japanese destroyer. And all you hear is yes, dang. And it just like snaps into I'm not sure they should have added the comical tongue in the, in the sound mix because it was unintentionally funny. To me. It's kind of kind of hilarious. But the action later was pretty cool. Where Dick best does the dive bomb on the airfield for the first time. You know, and paws up the last minute that that was really well done. Yeah. And destroys the hangar and all the plane. Yeah. And then the dog fight was really cool. Where the Japanese arrows come out of nowhere against the sunlight. That was that was really a cool dog. Fine. Doesn't it get like really foggy at one point? I think he goes way up into the clouds. And the thing keeps like appearing and disappearing and like, go straight over his wings. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Yeah, you get strikes. And then the final scene for that is you think they're out of the woods and then a bomber. A bunch of bombers try and bomb their aircraft carrier and one of the guys jumps in one of them the planes and shoots down one of the bombers that was coming straight on. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that that sounds fictional. But that actually happened. I looked that up. So that's that's pretty crazy. It looks like something right? Yeah, no, that happened. That looks like something that would just be Hollywood fluff. Like made up. The Japanese are using a bomber as like a kamikaze plane. And a dude literally jumped into a parked plane turret and you know, eviscerated the bomber? Yeah, that 100%. And he was promoted on the spot. So that did occur. sounds unbelievable. It was true. Didn't need to put that in. But you know, it's a good thing. It's crazy. But what's your favourite scene then bonus or favourite shot? I think my favourite scene. Strangely, is like, where one of the and this might go into script, I think more than, you know, actually how it shot. But it's when one of the admirals of the aircraft carriers, he decides to stay on his ship. And he gives like, a speech to the other Japanese? Oh, yeah. You know, because the commander failed. You know, we can't let them have this this ship. So we're gonna detonate it. All of you guys, you know, go but we're going down with the ship and you know, you've got like, his second command is like, I want to stay with you too. And it's like, they will watch the sun. You know, we'll watch the Moon together. And it's like, What the fuck, you know? But yeah, he kind of decides to go down. Yeah, I just thought that was kind of badass. I actually had that moment in acting because I actually enjoyed the Japanese actors more than the American ones to be honest. Yeah, I think a lot of the Japanese actors really Yeah, especially that scene where you know that the older commander tells the younger ones to no save yourself you're too young, the admiral or whatever, whatever. Goes down with the ship not you can save yourself. I thought that was just a great greatly played in an acting sense. Yeah, it was pretty for me, so as to like an actual shot. I'm trying to think. Yeah, actually probably when he blows Got the hangar? I think I think I might go with that. Yeah, in in the Marshall Islands. That was really good. Actually, no, I think I would go. The one that I mentioned before the whole sequence when they bombed Japan, because I remembered I said that. But yeah, I would actually say that's probably my favourite do. I think I did like that shot? I just thought it was shot really well, yeah, mine is the Marshall Islands attack. So directing score for me, it's probably is directed better than day after tomorrow. But again, I don't want to get into like the CGI versus practical debate again, but it's hard to fully enjoy this film and fully appreciate it when you know, a lot of what's on screen is not real, it's difficult to enjoy it as much as possible. It looks like a really, really good like, I don't know, like video game or something. And there's even like video game angles, you know, that you would have in a whilst you're actually trying to operate a plane during a video video game, you know that? That third person view that yeah, quite a few times in this film. And it's just like, they kind of like directed this film in a video game engine and then just kind of just move the camera a little bit to make sure it does make a video game sometimes. But then just use the that angle in certain shots anyway, can't be asked now just leave it like that. That's fine. Maybe this was, you know, from Battlefield five or something? I think yeah, I think a lot of this would have even looked much better if it was at night time. But then you couldn't do that. Because then it would be historically inaccurate. I mean, they, you know, they could have just fucking just make it dark. And then I reckon you would have a lot of the shoddy stare, you know, because that's, that's what some studios do. You know, you put the third act battle at night, and you can really hide a lot of the questionable stuff. Yeah, you can hide the CGI. I think that this film would have benefited from that. Because it looks pretty good. But it's just there's some scenes where you know, man, that just doesn't look real. Yeah, I know. I know. I keep going on about this, but I am a bit of a Chris Nolan fanboy. Knowing the fact that Chris Nolan used real Spitfires in Dunkirk, he actually strapped IMAX cameras to the to the Spitfires. I know like those scenes aren't terribly cinematic in terms of the movement and how dramatic those aircraft move. But yeah, it's real. That's real action. So there's a big difference with those two films, when with the way they're shot, and I would kind of prefer to watch Dunkirk again, because I know it's real, you know, I'm just like, wow, that's that looks incredible. Even though, like the movement isn't quite there, but, but the movement would be historically accurate, because I don't have real you know, but I don't kind of mind the CGI with with all the bullets and stuff at times, you know, I think they kind of have to do that. I know. Obviously, they struggle accuracy, but just again, to kind of mask their own CGI with the planes and stuff. So to just give that extra intensity, I guess. So I'll go with like a 7.9. For directing. How about you, sir? Oh, go a screenplay, then. I don't mind so much the film covering the events of Pearl Harbour. But what I do mind is suddenly learning that Tech Best at screens character went to the same academy to say low ROI that had just died at Pearl Harbour, which I think was the guy who shot down one of the Japanese planes with on the gun turret. And that's all I know about him, other than his name. And then there's a funeral scene. And then Dick best does this big speech about him. And I had no emotional connection to him, because I'm still trying to work out in there talking. So it just felt a bit pointless of those early scenes around Pearl Harbour, like after Pearl Harbour, I'm like, yeah, all I know, is his name. And like, he shot down a plane. That's it. I think it would have made the attack a lot more personal because everybody's talking about the attack. And obviously, it's bad. And a lot of people have lost people in it, you know, they're like, We need to get back in the Geoffrey's for this. And I think you're right, you know, the fact that you start with the attack, I you have no connection to these people whatsoever. Only afterwards to some of them. I think maybe if you had a good Yeah, even 20 minutes, just on the base, learning everybody's names, you know, build some, some character and then out of nowhere, you know, people get shut up. I think, you know, you would have actually given a damn you know, especially, like, you know, with his friends, you know, you say they do these speeches about him. They go to his funeral, this whole thing. I mean, he even finds his body and he's like char And you know, he's only got his, his his ring, because he was like, he wore this ring. And it's like, oh my god, like that seems to be the only thing left of him he looks like you know, just just ash. And it's unfortunate, but it would have been downright heartbreaking if you had actually seen them connect for like, you know, 15 minutes or so. Yeah. And then you're just like, oh my god, literally just have a scene with them. Yeah, just just why. Um, so I reckon that that is a big missed opportunity. They could have had 15 minutes in Pearl Harbour to get everybody tighten it. Kind of know everybody. Not even that I really just something something to learn about their relationship. All I know is his name. And he performed valiantly and Poe hover. Oh, and and Digg best knows him. Okay. Oh, all right. I quite like the way the story goes from goes where the intelligence officer Edwin Layton and general Nimitz played by Woody Harrelson. Like they manipulate the Japanese and Washington messages to confirm the the real Japanese target is midway. I must admit, I had to rewind the scenes a few times to fully understand it. But I felt it was quite satisfying to watch and, and it must have been difficult to condense a lot of that complex War history into a few scenes, but I found it was quite well done in the end. But I kind of wanted more of like the intelligence work in this film. Because I found that the most interesting part of the film in some ways of like, you know, how they're manipulating their messages and things like ignoring, you know, that the messages from Washington and what have you, because of, you know, how accurate the intelligence was, I kind of wanted more of that stuff, rather than some of the action, especially like, how they got one of the aircraft carriers. What was it? Was it the Lexington, I can't remember what they called it, the enterprise enterprise. You know, one of them's called the Enterprise, where they were talking about how it was sent to the south. And they, they were like, No, it's going to be midway. And they send a message to Halsey say something like, you know, we want you to kind of pretend you've got found by the Japanese so that that area isn't secure. So you have to leave. So you could disobey a direct order, and how we just kind of burns that letter. And he's like, nobody ever saw this, you know, to this thing. And basically, does that get spotted by the Japanese and then moved, but then, so they have an extra aircraft carrier in the bell? Yeah. I mean, I was surprised it took them so long to get back to Midway. I mean, I'm not I don't know why they didn't go to lightspeed to get Wait, who what the Americans? Oh, the ankle, the enterprise? Yeah, that went completely over my joke fell, like a lead balloon, but the foreshadowing isn't great. Like Dick best is like practising landing on the carrier at the start. Like if the flaps were jammed, and like running out of fuel, and they kind of come in sideways. And I was like, yeah, that's gonna happen near the end. That's going to happen again, near the end. Then as the end happens, where they're all wondering where best is, is he going to come back or not? That was kind of annoying, because I was like, Yeah, of course. He's gonna come back. Oh, I needed there he is, you know, and he's flying exactly the way he did at the start when he was practising. So yeah, that was not well hidden. Really not particularly subtle, but there we go. There's some cool lines. We have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with terrible results. I think that's one from one of the Japanese officers near the star. I got Torah, Torah Torah vibes from we're gonna give them a shellacking, which I thought was quite funny. Yeah, I think that's my favourite line. We're gonna give them really lacking and they're gonna give them a shot. What I love about this film, as well as this film has John Ford in it, the legendary filmmaker who did like stagecoach and a lot of classic Westerns in the 40s and 50s. He's like, holy shit, you get to the roof. That's John Ford. I mean, you get shot. Yeah. We get the shot. Keep shooting. I was brilliant. Definitely wanted more John Ford in there. But I think my favourite line goes to Woody house, where he's like, I don't care if he consults coffee grounds while doing the boogie woogie as long as the Intel is good. That's my favourite screenplay score for me. Again, I just think this, this film falls into the trap of, I think, probably would have been better if this was a TV show. And not a film, just to get more character, nuance and just longer scenes, I guess to give, you know, a lot of these characters more to do, and it just feels like it's very disjointed and very episodic. You know, and for me, I don't even think you even need like the do raid on Japan, I think, you know, you could just have some officer just say that this happened if you're doing a film, but if you want to add that and have that, like, a whole episode in a TV show, you know, I think they would have been so much better. So I just think this is a classic case of they're just coming way too much into this film. He just, it does feel a little disjointed. And again, dialogue wise, is no grey. There are a few good lines here and there. But a lot of the dialogue that like Ed scrying has isn't great at all. I know he's supposed to be really cocky, but it just doesn't land very well to me. But I definitely appreciate some of the historical, accurate stuff. Like how dangerous landing on aircraft carriers are. So I definitely appreciate that. So I'll go like 7.7 I think for ScreenFlow that's pretty that's pretty good. How about you, sir? Do you reckon? No, no, no, I mean, it's up to you. I might change it. No, no, no. You carry on. I'm over two. Yeah, no, you are. You've won both episodes. Yeah, I'll do maybe a 7.4. I do appreciate as we were saying, like the amount of stuff covered. I think again, I have the same criticism to you. Yeah, maybe it could have just been a little longer or you could have cut down on most of the stuff that isn't midway itself. So you can have more time for midway. I mean, you could have definitely just cut completely cut out like Pearl Harbour really maybe have have it as just written text at the start, which a lot of films do. Because we've seen I mean, you can't be a better film like Tora, Tora, Tora in terms of you know, the actual the actual Pearl Harbour you know, so, so acting then got any performances that stand out for you any good performances, Dennis Quaid? I like him because he was quite like really rugger. Really kind of you know Yeah. I feel like he was overdoing yeah a bit to me. He was fun. Some of the accents though. on display here were were quite bad. Like add screens accent was really annoying, especially the first hour Yeah, his was really irritating. I'm not sure what he was going for it like an Italian American cockney at times. It felt like what is this accent? I have not heard this before? What is going on? Even some of the American accents from American Actor actors were bad. I'm not sure what the hell Dennis Quaid was doing to be honest. I felt like both him and Ed scrying were trying way too hard to be these like really tough. Sailors, you know officers, as grind does get better when he becomes less cocky, to be fair, but Dennis Quaid look quite ill to be honest. I don't know. Yeah, I know. He's, he's getting on a bit now. But it just felt like something's not right with you. I'm not sure you should be acting in good health. I didn't think he was that bad. Yeah, I certainly enjoyed the Japanese actors more than the American ones to be Admiral Yamamoto. Yeah, to the place him. He was. He was pretty awesome. I like that. That young Japanese guy. I thought he was pretty cool. I thought he had like an arc and stuff. I thought it's kind of interesting that how he's introduced he, he wins a game against Admiral new GoMo. lagoon Goomer. You know, war game. Yeah. Where he's playing the Americans and the goomar is playing the Japanese. And he sinks three aircraft carriers. And Yamamoto is like, what's going on here? And he's like, he cheated. He cheated in the war game. And he was like, all I did is I had that the the Americans were already at Midway. And he goes, No, that's not gonna happen, you know that they put a trap on it. No. He's like, they're actually going to come from Pearl. So you know, redo it again. But then the irony is that they did lay a trap for them. You know, they literally were there. And you know, they did win, but if they want even better than that, yeah. Which is kind of interesting. Yeah, that's really good foreshadowing actually, I really like that. It's just kind of weird that like, all the Japanese stuff, it's actually written and performed way better for me. The American stuff. I don't think it's like fully half and half. There's definitely more to the Japanese side and the American side than the Japanese. I kind of wish this was More half and half to be honest, I think the film would have served a lot better if it was like that. Yeah, definitely enjoyed the Japanese side of the Yeah, definitely, especially in terms of acting favourite performance spires. I'd probably go with the Admiral Nagumo he's got a kind of interesting look. Yeah to him. Like he's very old. Admiral, the much older one Yeah, with more experience and stuff. Definitely looks the part definitely sounds the part. Yeah. And especially like when everything's lost. And he's like, I'm, you know, I should go down with the ship and the guy's like, No, you can't you know, we need your leadership and stuff and you just look at him and he's like, Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, he's definitely my favourite on the Japanese side. I think my favourite overall probably is Woody Harrelson. I just think. I think just simply because he's not just over acting. He's just nice and calm. He brings some calmness to the film. And he's just you know, Woody Harrelson, Woody Harrelson is never bad in anything. So I just really liked his performance, you know, and he and he has the best line. So my favourite line? See, I'll go from Woody Harrelson. So my score for acting 7.3 I think because a lot of the performances, they're just dialled up too much. I know it's a war film in that but even with the scenes, we're not fighting anyone. It just feels like the throwing way too hard. And it's just way too much. I know I like I'm a big salty guy. And you know Woody Harrelson and the Japanese actors really say that in terms of acting. What's your school and for acting? Yeah, okay, that's yeah, that's quite interesting. Yeah, I think maybe I'll just go the same go 7.3 Right, let's add up the scores. Then for midway, Midway gets 38.6 so it's a tight one. The day after tomorrow wins we're 39.5 They probably will end up fairly low on the list at the end here but never mind. You know, Midway is still really interesting in terms of the history so it certainly is worth for watch if you just want to know a little bit about or get a an initial insight in the Second World War history in the Pacific to get you going I guess to find out your knowledge there. So next week as Uncharted will be out in cinnamons, which has been in development for like god knows how long and it's finally here. So we'll be doing video game adaptations. Time. You're gonna have to wade through entire crap first. There's an ocean ocean of excrement. Video games to movies. There's going to be really good. Yeah, I don't get why that is. I don't get why that is just so many video. game adaptations are fucking awful. So yeah, this is gonna be difficult. Yeah, so get ready for some video game bashing for next time. I'm serious. I reckon we could do a top 1050 You know, list of like the worst fucking ones like No, it'd be most of one's really bad movies, but thanks, powers as our local historian. Bye bye. Bye. Bye. That's it for this week's pod. Thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like to find out more about the podcast or suggest future topics for us to discuss related to upcoming releases. Let us know on Instagram at film versus film podcast and on Twitter at FF underscore podcast. Remember, please subscribe pod signing off